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	<title>Kommentarer til: Tradisjonelle anglikanere søker forening med Roma</title>
	<link>http://aomoi.net/blog/arkiv/972</link>
	<description>En blog om katolsk teologi og liturgi, samt litt økumenikk.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Av: trond</title>
		<link>http://aomoi.net/blog/arkiv/972#comment-12033</link>
		<author>trond</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://aomoi.net/blog/arkiv/972#comment-12033</guid>
					<description>Interessant å merke seg her at liturgien som brukes av TAC er mye mer lik den klassiske romerske liturgien enn Novus Ordo er, til tross for at den er en "revidert" utgave av samme, signert apostaten Cranmer.
Noen av TAC's menigheter bruker også den nå utdødde Sarumliturgien, en lokal variant av TLM. Her i Norge hadde vi Liturgiæ Nidarosensis som lokal ekvivalent til Sarum i England.

Å gå tilbake til slike varianter er besnærende, men likevel et brudd med forskriften om kontinuitet. Konsekvensen vil være antikvarianisme og således like galt som Novus Ordo-opphavsmennenes (Concilium og Bugnini) påståtte tilbakevenden til den "opphavelige" liturgi.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interessant &#229; merke seg her at liturgien som brukes av <span class="caps">TAC</span> er mye mer lik den klassiske romerske liturgien enn Novus Ordo er, til tross for at den er en &#8220;revidert&#8221; utgave av samme, signert apostaten Cranmer.<br />
Noen av <span class="caps">TAC</span>&#8217;s menigheter bruker ogs&#229; den n&#229; utd&#248;dde Sarumliturgien, en lokal variant av <span class="caps">TLM</span>. Her i Norge hadde vi Liturgi&#230; Nidarosensis som lokal ekvivalent til Sarum i England.</p>
<p>&#197; g&#229; tilbake til slike varianter er besn&#230;rende, men likevel et brudd med forskriften om kontinuitet. Konsekvensen vil v&#230;re antikvarianisme og s&#229;ledes like galt som Novus Ordo-opphavsmennenes (Concilium og Bugnini) p&#229;st&#229;tte tilbakevenden til den &#8220;opphavelige&#8221; liturgi.</p>
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		<title>Av: René Michaud</title>
		<link>http://aomoi.net/blog/arkiv/972#comment-12065</link>
		<author>René Michaud</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 14:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://aomoi.net/blog/arkiv/972#comment-12065</guid>
					<description>(Jeg tar med denne kommentaren under tvil; måten våre protestantiske brødre og søstre omtales på er ganske upassende. Red.)

The anglican bishops and prests are not true bishops and priests. They are just laymen as their ordinations have been declared "void and null" by the Pope Leo XIII in his encyclical Apostolicae Curae,  September 18, 1896, on the nullity of Anglican Orders  :
"we pronounce and declare that ordinations carried out according to the Anglican rite have been, and are, absolutely null and utterly void." 
So the mass they performed even if it looks traditionnal is totally invalid. They just worship bread and wine. 
If you want to know more about it, I suggest that you read the book of Michael Davies about the anglicanism : "Cranmer's Godly Order: The Destruction of Catholicism Through Liturgical Change".
You have to know about some few names like Ambrose de Lisle, Newman, the pastor Pusey, Lord Halifax, Father Portal, Dom Beauduin, ... 

NS : Sorry for wiriting in english... My norwegian isn't that good when it comes to write about religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Jeg tar med denne kommentaren under tvil; m&#229;ten v&#229;re protestantiske br&#248;dre og s&#248;stre omtales p&#229; er ganske upassende. Red.)</p>
<p>The anglican bishops and prests are not true bishops and priests. They are just laymen as their ordinations have been declared &#8220;void and null&#8221; by the Pope Leo <span class="caps">XIII</span> in his encyclical Apostolicae Curae,  September 18, 1896, on the nullity of Anglican Orders  :<br />
&#8220;we pronounce and declare that ordinations carried out according to the Anglican rite have been, and are, absolutely null and utterly void.&#8221;<br />
So the mass they performed even if it looks traditionnal is totally invalid. They just worship bread and wine.<br />
If you want to know more about it, I suggest that you read the book of Michael Davies about the anglicanism : &#8220;Cranmer&#8217;s Godly Order: The Destruction of Catholicism Through Liturgical Change&#8221;.<br />
You have to know about some few names like Ambrose de Lisle, Newman, the pastor Pusey, Lord Halifax, Father Portal, Dom Beauduin, ...</p>
<p><span class="caps">NS </span>: Sorry for wiriting in english&#8230; My norwegian isn&#8217;t that good when it comes to write about religion.</p>
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		<title>Av: René Michaud</title>
		<link>http://aomoi.net/blog/arkiv/972#comment-12112</link>
		<author>René Michaud</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://aomoi.net/blog/arkiv/972#comment-12112</guid>
					<description>Pastor Moi,

Hva tar du under tvil ?

Don't you believe the pope Leo XIII ? Do you think he was wrong in his encyclical Apostolicae Curae ?
(You can read this encyclical here : http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13curae.htm )

Here is the end of the Pope's encyclical : 

40. We decree that these letters and all things contained therein shall not be liable at any time to be impugned or objected to by reason of fault or any other defect whatsoever of subreption or obreption of our intention, but are and shall be always valid and in force and shall be inviolably observed both juridically and otherwise, by all of whatsoever degree and preeminence, declaring null and void anything which, in these matters, may happen to be contrariwise attempted, whether wittingly or unwittingly, by any person whatsoever, by whatsoever authority or pretext, all things to the contrary notwithstanding. 

41. We will that there shall be given to copies of these letters, even printed, provided that they be signed by a notary and sealed by a person constituted in ecclesiastical dignity, the same credence that would be given to the expression of our will by the showing of these presents. 

Given at Rome, at St. Peter's, in the year of the Incarnation of Our Lord, one thousand eight hundred and ninety-six, on the Ides of September, in the nineteenth year of our pontificate. 

-- Leo PP. XIII

------------------------------------

Here come also another document written by the english catholic bishops at that time. The title of this document is "A VINDICATION OF THE BULL ’APOSTOLICÆ CURÆ’. A LETTER ON ANGLICAN ORDERS, BY THE CARDINAL ARCHBISHOP AND BISHOPS OF THE PROVINCE OF WESTMINSTER IN REPLY TO THE LETTER ADDRESSED TO THEM BY THE ANGLICAN ARCHBISHOPS OF CANTERBURY AND YORK - 1898"

You can download this document here : 
http://www.rore-sanctifica.org/etudes/2006/RORE-2006-02-17-EN-Vindication_of_Apostolicae_Curae_1898.pdf

Do you know better the question of the invalidity of the ordination in the anglican Church than the Pope Leo XIII and the catholic bishops and cardinals from England ?

Do you oppose the pope on that matter ? 

So if you don't (and you should) therefore you should logically come to the conclusion that the masses celebrated by the anglicans are invalid because the anglican "priests" are not priests. 

These anglican "priests" don't possess the power to transform the bread and the wine into the flesh and the blood of our Lord. 

So, good norwegian catholics, don't be fool of the anglican liturgy ! It looks nice, it smells nice, ..., but it's totally invalid. It's empty. The bread remains bread and the wine remains wine. 

NB : It's not a personnal attack against you, pastor Moi. I am just defending the catholic truth. As a catholic, that's my duty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pastor Moi,</p>
<p>Hva tar du under tvil ?</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you believe the pope Leo <span class="caps">XIII </span>? Do you think he was wrong in his encyclical Apostolicae Curae ?<br />
(You can read this encyclical here : <a href="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13curae.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13curae.htm</a> )</p>
<p>Here is the end of the Pope&#8217;s encyclical :</p>
<p>40. We decree that these letters and all things contained therein shall not be liable at any time to be impugned or objected to by reason of fault or any other defect whatsoever of subreption or obreption of our intention, but are and shall be always valid and in force and shall be inviolably observed both juridically and otherwise, by all of whatsoever degree and preeminence, declaring null and void anything which, in these matters, may happen to be contrariwise attempted, whether wittingly or unwittingly, by any person whatsoever, by whatsoever authority or pretext, all things to the contrary notwithstanding.</p>
<p>41. We will that there shall be given to copies of these letters, even printed, provided that they be signed by a notary and sealed by a person constituted in ecclesiastical dignity, the same credence that would be given to the expression of our will by the showing of these presents.</p>
<p>Given at Rome, at St. Peter&#8217;s, in the year of the Incarnation of Our Lord, one thousand eight hundred and ninety-six, on the Ides of September, in the nineteenth year of our pontificate.<br />
&#8212;Leo PP. <span class="caps">XIII</span><br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
Here come also another document written by the english catholic bishops at that time. The title of this document is &#8220;A <span class="caps">VINDICATION OF THE BULL </span>&#8217;APOSTOLIC&#198; <span class="caps">CUR</span>&#198;&#8217;. <span class="caps">A LETTER ON ANGLICAN ORDERS</span>, BY <span class="caps">THE CARDINAL ARCHBISHOP AND BISHOPS OF THE PROVINCE OF WESTMINSTER IN REPLY TO THE LETTER ADDRESSED TO THEM BY THE ANGLICAN ARCHBISHOPS OF CANTERBURY AND YORK </span>- 1898&#8221;</p>
<p>You can download this document here :<br />
<a href="http://www.rore-sanctifica.org/etudes/2006/RORE-2006-02-17-EN-Vindication_of_Apostolicae_Curae_1898.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.rore-sanctifica.org/etudes/2006/RORE-2006-02-17-EN-Vindication_of_Apostolicae_Curae_1898.pdf</a></p>
<p>Do you know better the question of the invalidity of the ordination in the anglican Church than the Pope Leo <span class="caps">XIII</span> and the catholic bishops and cardinals from England ?</p>
<p>Do you oppose the pope on that matter ?</p>
<p>So if you don&#8217;t (and you should) therefore you should logically come to the conclusion that the masses celebrated by the anglicans are invalid because the anglican &#8220;priests&#8221; are not priests.</p>
<p>These anglican &#8220;priests&#8221; don&#8217;t possess the power to transform the bread and the wine into the flesh and the blood of our Lord.</p>
<p>So, good norwegian catholics, don&#8217;t be fool of the anglican liturgy ! It looks nice, it smells nice, ..., but it&#8217;s totally invalid. It&#8217;s empty. The bread remains bread and the wine remains wine.</p>
<p><span class="caps">NB </span>: It&#8217;s not a personnal attack against you, pastor Moi. I am just defending the catholic truth. As a catholic, that&#8217;s my duty.</p>
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		<title>Av: Oddvar</title>
		<link>http://aomoi.net/blog/arkiv/972#comment-12113</link>
		<author>Oddvar</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://aomoi.net/blog/arkiv/972#comment-12113</guid>
					<description>René

Som jeg skrev over, er det ikke slik Den katolske kirke beskriver våre protestantiske brødre og søstre i vår tid - det kan du se i alle dokumenter som er skrevet de siste 40 år - selv om vi (som du sier) heller ikke kan anerkjenne deres kirkelige embeder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ren&#233;</p>
<p>Som jeg skrev over, er det ikke slik Den katolske kirke beskriver v&#229;re protestantiske br&#248;dre og s&#248;stre i v&#229;r tid &#8211; det kan du se i alle dokumenter som er skrevet de siste 40 &#229;r &#8211; selv om vi (som du sier) heller ikke kan anerkjenne deres kirkelige embeder.</p>
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