{"id":1090,"date":"2011-03-06T11:30:46","date_gmt":"2011-03-06T10:30:46","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/?p=1090"},"modified":"2011-03-06T22:42:24","modified_gmt":"2011-03-06T21:42:24","slug":"hvor-gammel-er-den-stille-kanon","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/2011\/03\/hvor-gammel-er-den-stille-kanon\/","title":{"rendered":"Hvor gammel er den &laquo;stille kanon&raquo;?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Som en <a href=\"http:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/2011\/03\/den-hellige-stillheten\/\">fortsettelse p\u00e5 forrige innlegg<\/a>, er det p\u00e5 sin plass \u00e5 p\u00e5peke at det er 11- til 1200 \u00e5r siden kanonb\u00f8nnen begynte \u00e5 bli sagt stille av presten. Slik beskriver Michael Davies utviklinga:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8230; For a long time the Canon was said aloud, probably to a recitative, but simpler, tone like the Preface. Recitation in a low voice appears towards the middle of the eighth century, and in the ninth century with Ordo Romanus the silent recitation became obligatory. In the east the practice was adopted much earlier. Everywhere the tendency was to surround the Canon with respect and a sense of mystery and to reserve it to the celebrant alone.<\/p>\n<p>Father Fortescue believes that a practical reason accounts for the adoption of the silent Canon: &laquo;The Sanctus sung by the choir took some time; meanwhile the celebrant went on with the prayer, which in that case had to be said silently. So it became a custom, a tradition, and later mystic reasons were found for it.&raquo; <\/p>\n<p>What is certain is that the transition must have taken place under the guidance , of the Holy Ghost and the reason is not hard to find-there could be no more appropriate manifestation both of the nature of the Canon and the awesome powers of the sacrificing priest. This is made clear in the quotation from Father Jungmann which began this chapter. Similar sentiments expressed by other Catholic authors are not hard to find-and the Catholic who would have questioned them before Vatican II would have been rare indeed. &#8230;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Jeg har ingen egen erfaring \u00e5 bygge p\u00e5, men jeg har vanskelig for \u00e5 tro at lekfolket skulle ha noen problemer med at denne (mest h\u00f8ytidelige) delen av messen ble sagt stille &#8211; de som husker tilbake s\u00e5 langt, m\u00e5 gjerne informere meg\/oss. Jeg ser det heller slik at dette h\u00f8rer sammen med at presten skulle vende seg mot folket, ogs\u00e5 i de delene av messen der han tydelig ber til Gud. Det gir jo ingen mening at man kaster ut det gamle alteret, setter inn et nytt bordalter, presten st\u00e5r n\u00e5 vendt mot folket, men snakker fortsatt med hviskende stemme; da m\u00e5 han jo snakke slik at folk kan h\u00f8re ham! <\/p>\n<p>Tidligere fokuserte man p\u00e5 at presten ba b\u00f8nnene, og spesielt den eukaristike b\u00f8nn, til Gud, og da var det naturlig at han ogs\u00e5 vendte seg til Gud (det var ogs\u00e5 helt narurlig i min lutherske oppvekst). Men n\u00e5r fokus blir flyttet fra b\u00f8nn til Gud &#8211; ja, et offer b\u00e5ret fram for Gud &#8211; til et nattverds<strong>m\u00e5ltid<\/strong>, da f\u00f8lger b\u00e5de retning og stemmebruk med p\u00e5 kj\u00f8pet. (Jeg m\u00e5 innr\u00f8mme at jeg finner det litt forstyrrende, spesielt i sm\u00e5 kapeller, \u00e5 st\u00e5 rett foran mennesker &#8211; og knapt kunne unng\u00e5 \u00e5 se p\u00e5 dem, et krusifiks foran meg hjelper bare delvis &#8211; n\u00e5r jeg ber til Gud.)<\/p>\n<p>Michael Davies skriver ogs\u00e5 ting i dette kapittelet, som jeg ikke kan v\u00e6re enig i. Han skriver (og det gj\u00f8r han gjennom hele boka) at katolikkene forandret dette (kanon med lav eller kraftig stemme) for \u00e5 tekkes protestantene. Der tror jeg han tar feil; dette var ikke den viktigste begrunnelsen. Det var heller det man noen ganger kaller arkeologisme; at man vil g\u00e5 tilbake til noe eldre, som man regner som bedre (selv om man ogs\u00e5 misforstod mye av dette p\u00e5 60-tallet). Man tenkte at katolikker de f\u00f8rste 600-800 \u00e5r feiret messen f\u00f8rst og fremst som et nattverdm\u00e5ltid (med fokus p\u00e5 m\u00e5ltid), f\u00f8r middelalderen kom og \u00f8dela. <\/p>\n<p>Den liturgiske bevegelsen (som begynte godt, men etter hvert l\u00f8p l\u00f8psk) \u00f8nsket \u00e5 forandre dagens liturgi slik at den stemte bedre med den tradisjonelle. Av to grunner ble de liturgiske forandringene mislykket: 1) de misforstod Kirkens gamle praksis og 2) de tok ikke hensyn til at Kirken, ledet av Den hellige \u00c5nd, utviklet en tjenlig og god liturgi &#8211; som nok trengte justering, men som det var helt feil \u00e5 kaste vrak p\u00e5.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Som en fortsettelse p\u00e5 forrige innlegg, er det p\u00e5 sin plass \u00e5 p\u00e5peke at det er 11- til 1200 \u00e5r siden kanonb\u00f8nnen begynte \u00e5 bli sagt stille av presten. Slik beskriver Michael Davies utviklinga: &#8230; For a long time the Canon was said aloud, probably to a recitative, but simpler, tone like the Preface. Recitation [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[11],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1090","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-liturgi"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1090","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1090"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1090\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1090"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1090"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1090"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}