{"id":1676,"date":"2011-09-11T09:18:59","date_gmt":"2011-09-11T07:18:59","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/?p=1676"},"modified":"2011-09-11T09:18:59","modified_gmt":"2011-09-11T07:18:59","slug":"men-kanskje-messens-proprium-oftest-bor-synges-pa-morsmalet","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/2011\/09\/men-kanskje-messens-proprium-oftest-bor-synges-pa-morsmalet\/","title":{"rendered":"Men kanskje messens proprium oftest b\u00f8r synges p\u00e5 morsm\u00e5let?"},"content":{"rendered":"

I v\u00e5re tradisjonelle latinske s\u00f8ndagsmesser i Oslo<\/a> synges alltid messens proprium p\u00e5 latin med de foreskrevne gregorianske melodier, og slik b\u00f8r det v\u00e6re – selv om det ogs\u00e5 om n\u00f8dvendig er tillatt \u00e5 synge disse tekstene p\u00e5 latin til enklere melodier. Men i andre messer, mer vanlige menighetsmesser, mener flere at dette vil v\u00e6re mindre passende.<\/p>\n

Jeffrey Tucker og L\u00e1szl\u00f3 Dobszay (i artikkelen jeg nevnte tidligere i dag<\/a>) mener (faktisk) ogs\u00e5 det; slik skriver Tucker:<\/p>\n

However, he (Dobszay) was also nearly alone, for many years, in being an advocate of sung vernacular<\/strong> propers in the ordinary form.<\/p>\n

For years, I couldn’t understand his thinking here. Why vernacular? Well, Dobszay saw that there was a step missing in the achievement of the ideal if we expect to take a leap from the prevailing practice of pop songs with random text to Latin chant from the Graduale Romanum. That step was to sing the Mass texts in the vernacular according to a chant-based idiom drawn from our long musical tradition.<\/p>\n

He turns out to be incredibly correct on this point. In fact, he was the true inspiration behind the Simple English Propers, book that has permitted regular parishes to start singing chant for the first time. This book and so many others are part of his legacy that he left in this world. In fact, I would even suggest that the new translation of the Roman Missal that is implemented this Advent owes much to his influence.<\/p>\n

Just this week, I had a conversation with a dedicated Church musician who had converted to the chant cause and implemented sung propers in Latin in her parish. This approach was making gains in Mass after Mass for two solid years. Then one day the pastor came to her and said: \u201cI\u2019m not really sure that the introit you are singing really serves its purpose. I think the people are afraid of the Latin, regard the schola as somewhat separate from everything else, and I fear that this approach is alienating people.\u201d<\/p>\n

She was stunned and of course bristled. But what the pastor says goes, as we all know. Tragically, progress stopped. Now the parish is back to singing English hymns that are not part of the Mass proper. They are just hymn selections chosen the same week from a check list of possible pieces to sing. The choir was no longer singing the liturgy; it was singing something else.<\/p>\n

So what went wrong? … it is crucial to consider that the pastor’s objection was not to Mass propers but rather to Latin. …<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I kommentarene til dette innlegget finner jeg ogs\u00e5 to spesielt interessante synspunkter:<\/p>\n

… Does it have to be plainchant? Why not set the propers to the more standard Psalm fare available? Something like Psallite but with a closer adherence to the text. For some of us even plainchant is a big step for a parish to accept. If the primary goal is to use the propers, maybe a baby step is first needed. Then down the road, when the parish hears propers set to plainchant, the transition will be easier. …<\/p>\n

… I had a priest friend who was a peritus at the Council. HIs understanding of the liturgical reforms was that the Ordinary was to remain in Latin with the people to learn to sing, in Latin, the parts proper to them but eventually the orations and propers would be in the vernacular. Too bad that didn’t happen that way. We would have been spared a lot of pain … <\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I v\u00e5re tradisjonelle latinske s\u00f8ndagsmesser i Oslo synges alltid messens proprium p\u00e5 latin med de foreskrevne gregorianske melodier, og slik b\u00f8r det v\u00e6re – selv om det ogs\u00e5 om n\u00f8dvendig er tillatt \u00e5 synge disse tekstene p\u00e5 latin til enklere melodier. Men i andre messer, mer vanlige menighetsmesser, mener flere at dette vil v\u00e6re mindre […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[11],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1676","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-liturgi"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1676","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1676"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1676\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1676"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1676"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1676"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}