{"id":3115,"date":"2007-09-19T16:20:35","date_gmt":"2007-09-19T14:20:35","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/aomoi.net\/blog\/arkiv\/915"},"modified":"2012-07-15T21:07:39","modified_gmt":"2012-07-15T19:07:39","slug":"er-messen-bare-et-m%c3%b8te-med-gud-eller-ogsa-en-anledning-til-a-l%c3%a6re","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/2007\/09\/er-messen-bare-et-m%c3%b8te-med-gud-eller-ogsa-en-anledning-til-a-l%c3%a6re\/","title":{"rendered":"Er messen bare et m\u00f8te med Gud, eller ogs\u00e5 en anledning til \u00e5 l\u00e6re?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Jeg skrev for noen uker siden her p\u00e5 bloggen &#8211; etter \u00e5 ha opplevd min f\u00f8rste tradisjonelle latinske messe &#8211; flere positive ting, men ogs\u00e5 f\u00f8lgende: &laquo;Bibeltekstene lest p\u00e5 latin av presten, mens han st\u00e5r vendt mot alteret, syns jeg nok er det aller minst passende. Her b\u00f8r TLM l\u00e6re av den nye messen og lese bibeltekstene p\u00e5 et passende moderne spr\u00e5k, vendt mot folket.&raquo;<\/p>\n<p>N\u00e5 har jeg f\u00e5tt f\u00f8lgende svar p\u00e5 disse synspunktene:<\/p>\n<p><i>Jeg leste litt p\u00e5 din blog og ble sl\u00e5tt av at du ser ut til \u00e5 tro at lesningene i den eldre ritusen betraktes som helt eller delvis didaktiske. Jag tror at dette er et temmelig sent synspunkt, som ikke egentlig er hva den eldre ritusen uttrykker. Kanskje ligger svaret p\u00e5 din forundring der? For egen del fors\u00f8ker jeg \u00e5 \u00e5pne meg for en annen forst\u00e5else n\u00e5r jeg n\u00e6rmer meg den eldre liturgien, litt p\u00e5 samme m\u00e5te som n\u00e5r jeg bes\u00f8ker bysantinsk liturgi. Fors\u00f8ker man \u00e5 lese inn Paulus VI&#8217;s liturgisyn i den eldre ritusen, da ender det nok med at man langsomt omformer den eldre romerske liturgien etter den paulinske. Den eldre liturgien har imidlertid st\u00f8rre slektskap med de \u00f8stlige ritene enn med Bugninis reform, i hvert fall mht. liturgisyn.<\/i><\/p>\n<p>Jeg har i utgangspunktet sans for sammenlingninga med bysantinsk liturgi, og ser umiddelbart at den gamle messen ligner en del p\u00e5 denne. P\u00e5 den annen side var prekenen (ut fra tekstene eller over et annet tema) ofte sv\u00e6rt sentral i s\u00f8ndagsmessene innenfor den latinske ritus, og den er jo utprega didaktisk. Jeg ser for meg muligheten av at bibeltekstene kan v\u00e6re i stor grad tilbedende eller meditative &#8211; heller enn didaktiske &#8211; men jeg er ikke overbevist om at det er det beste.<\/p>\n<p>Pave Benedikt har snakka tydelig om at hele messen gjerne m\u00e5 v\u00e6re p\u00e5 latin, og gjerne med presten vendt mot Gud, bortsett fra ordets del, som gjerne\/helst m\u00e5 v\u00e6re p\u00e5 morsm\u00e5let og vendt mot folket. Mine synspunkter her stemmer nok overens med mitt \u00f8nske om \u00e5 feire den gamle messen som ekstraordin\u00e6r form (som paven ogs\u00e5 tydelig har kalt den), og den nye messen (p\u00e5 verdig m\u00e5te, gjerne p\u00e5 latin) som ordin\u00e6r form.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jeg skrev for noen uker siden her p\u00e5 bloggen &#8211; etter \u00e5 ha opplevd min f\u00f8rste tradisjonelle latinske messe &#8211; flere positive ting, men ogs\u00e5 f\u00f8lgende: &laquo;Bibeltekstene lest p\u00e5 latin av presten, mens han st\u00e5r vendt mot alteret, syns jeg nok er det aller minst passende. Her b\u00f8r TLM l\u00e6re av den nye messen og [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[11,12],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3115","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-liturgi","category-tlm"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3115","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3115"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3115\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":7182,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3115\/revisions\/7182"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3115"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3115"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3115"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}