{"id":3432,"date":"2008-04-25T07:17:34","date_gmt":"2008-04-25T05:17:34","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/aomoi.net\/blog\/arkiv\/1235"},"modified":"2012-02-13T11:27:49","modified_gmt":"2012-02-13T10:27:49","slug":"svart-interessante-tanker-om-fornyelsen-av-messen","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/2008\/04\/svart-interessante-tanker-om-fornyelsen-av-messen\/","title":{"rendered":"Sv\u00e6rt interessante tanker om fornyelsen av messen"},"content":{"rendered":"

En artikkel p\u00e5 bloggen NLM<\/a> tar opp det \u00f8kende samarbeidet mellom to grupper som begge \u00f8nsker \u00e5 forbedre liturgien i Kirken; ei gruppe som \u00f8nsker \u00e5 reformere (liturgireformen av 1969), og ei gruppe som \u00f8nsker \u00e5 bruke messens tradisjonelle latinske form.<\/p>\n

Recently we reported upon the fact that Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J. has started to offer the usus antiquior in a regular way – in addition to his celebration of the modern form of the Roman liturgy. We deemed this significant because Fr. Fessio was one of the founding proponents of the reform of the reform and one of its leading voices in the English speaking world. Few people are as identifiable with that movement as is he and yet here he was «going unto the altar of God, to God who gives joy unto my youth» according to the 1962 liturgical books. Precisely because of his intimate involvement with the reform of the reform, some might have seen his celebration of the usus antiquior as rather surprising; perhaps even a contradiction. Of course, this idea is informed by the very approach of which we have been speaking.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

I intervjuet med Father Fessio sier han bl.a.:
\nBehind the idea of the \u201cReform of the Reform\u201d is the fact that the implementation of the renewal of the liturgy called for by the Second Vatican Council went far beyond what the Council anticipated and constituted what Cardinal Ratzinger called a \u201cbreach\u201d or \u201crupture\u201d in the liturgical tradition that was unprecedented. What was intended to be organic growth was replaced by a \u201cfabrication\u201d of the professoriate. This was the reform that needed to be reformed. To reform it meant to bring it back into continuity with tradition to the extent possible. … … The reform of the reform is an attempt to approximate, from within the Novus Ordo, what the 1962 Missal would have become had it undergone a modest and organic reform guided by the explicit demands of the Council. We think, therefore, that the 1962 missal was meant to remain within a living tradition where the typical organic growth could continue within the liturgy.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Han uttaler seg ogs\u00e5 om hva han tror pave Benedikt \u00f8nsker med sin frigiving av den gamle messen:
\nIt is demonstrable that the Holy Father did not want simply to restore the status quo ante in giving permission to all priests and stable groups of the faithful to have the Missal of 1962. In his covering letter he specifically talked about mutual enrichment in which there could be some changes to the 1962 missal. In the Motu Proprio itself, he gave permission for the readings to be in the vernacular. In his book «The Spirit of the Liturgy,» he says that some of the reforms of the last century should not be rejected. He specifically mentions moving the altar away from the apse towards the transept, the separation of the ambo from the altar, and having the readings in the vernacular.<\/p>\n

Therefore, I think it is more than arguable that the Holy Father\u2019s intent is that the Mass should celebrated in a way somewhere in between the Missal of 1962 as it was in 1962 and the Missal of 1969 as it is celebrated today.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

N\u00e5 som han har begynt \u00e5 feire den tradisjonelle latinske messen, hvilke elementer derfra \u00f8nsker han \u00e5 bruke ogs\u00e5 i den nye messen?
\nI would like to see the prayers at the foot of the altar restored with the people able to make the responses with the server. As a matter of fact, this was permitted at least as early as 1958 when this was proposed as the \u201cmost perfect form\u201d of participation by the faithful in the Mass at that time. I think that the offertory prayers are richer and more inspiring than the Novus Ordo offertory prayers. And I think preparation for Communion is also more beautiful. I am sure I will raise the ire of some proponents of the 1962 missal when I say that I do think that the last Gospel is an accretion which should be eliminated. I also think that having the priest and the server\/congregation recite the Confiteor together is quite appropriate. And I would say that between the Novus Ordo celebrated in Latin in the most traditional way, and the extraordinary form celebrated as a Dialogue Mass done without the Leonine prayers (which are not in the Missal of 1962) the \u201cgap\u201d between the two forms is significantly reduced. And the sense of continuity much more obvious. This, I think is a path to \u201cmutually enriching\u201d forms which can lead to an \u201cinterior reconciliation\u201d\u2014these being, in my opinion, the critical phrases for interpreting the motu proprio.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Hva syns han i den nye messen man absoulutt b\u00f8r beholde?
\nYou can find them all in Sacrosanctum Concilium (50-58): Distinguishing the Liturgy of the Word from the Liturgy of the Eucharist; some simplification; more of Scripture in the daily readings; encouragement of the homily; limited use of the vernacular, particularly for the readings; and yes, for those of us living in a community of priests, concelebration.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Les gjerne hele intervjuet her<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

En artikkel p\u00e5 bloggen NLM tar opp det \u00f8kende samarbeidet mellom to grupper som begge \u00f8nsker \u00e5 forbedre liturgien i Kirken; ei gruppe som \u00f8nsker \u00e5 reformere (liturgireformen av 1969), og ei gruppe som \u00f8nsker \u00e5 bruke messens tradisjonelle latinske form. Recently we reported upon the fact that Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J. has started to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[11],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3432","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-liturgi"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3432","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3432"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3432\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5525,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3432\/revisions\/5525"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3432"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3432"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3432"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}