{"id":3571,"date":"2008-08-07T16:07:57","date_gmt":"2008-08-07T14:07:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/aomoi.net\/blog\/arkiv\/1378"},"modified":"2012-02-13T11:27:10","modified_gmt":"2012-02-13T10:27:10","slug":"den-katolske-messen-fra-1965-69-et-aktuelt-alternativ","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/2008\/08\/den-katolske-messen-fra-1965-69-et-aktuelt-alternativ\/","title":{"rendered":"Den katolske messen fra 1965-69 &#8211; et aktuelt alternativ?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Jeg er glad for \u00e5 ha l\u00e6rt den Tradisjonelle Latinske Messen; det er mange ting i den messen alle katolske prester b\u00f8r kjenne til. Samtidig har jeg oppdaga (spesielt de siste ukene) at jeg ikke er noen purist mht. hvordan messen ble feiret f\u00f8r 1900, eller f\u00f8r 1950. Jeg syns f.eks. gjerne at folket (ikke bare ministrantene) skal delta mye med svar, etter de reglende som ble publisert i 1958, jeg syns gjerne ogs\u00e5 at tekstene i noen sammenhenger kan leses direkte p\u00e5 morsm\u00e5let. Men n\u00e5r det gjelder redusjonen av prestens b\u00f8nner og gester (korstegn og kneb\u00f8y) som kom fra 1964, er jeg mye mer negativ til disse; jeg tror de er n\u00f8dvendige for at vi skal kunne oppleve messens hellighet.<\/p>\n<p>En leser utfordra meg i dag \u00e5 se grundigere p\u00e5 messen fra 1965 og si hva jeg syns om den. <a href=\"http:\/\/www.coreyzelinski.8m.com\/1965_Mass\/\">P\u00e5 denne lenken<\/a> ser man denne messen slik den ble godkjent for bruk i USA. I det store og det hele syns jeg den er akseptabel, men enkelte deler av messen b\u00f8r alltid v\u00e6re p\u00e5 latin, og jeg syns det er upassende \u00e5 bruke den apostoliske trosbekjennelsen i s\u00f8ndagsmessen. Det er ogs\u00e5 v\u00e6re andre forandringer fra den vanlige TLM som b\u00f8r diskuteres. <strong>Hva syns dere lesere?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><i><font color=\"#333399\"> This was the official English version of the Order of Mass from the 1965 Roman Missal, published directly after the Second Vatican Council ended in 1965.  &#8230;  This interim Mass is much closer to the intended fruit of Vatican II&#8217;s Sacrosanctum Concilum than the New Mass of 1970.  It is essentially the Tridentine Latin Mass in English with minor modifications.<\/p>\n<p>Many rubrical similarities exist between the 1965 Missal and the New Mass of 1970.  Obviously, an option for use of the vernacular exists in the 1965.  Furthermore, as in the Novus Ordo, it is at the discretion of the celebrant to either face the East (&laquo;ad orientem&raquo;) or the people (&laquo;versus ad populum&raquo;). <\/font><\/i> <!--more--> <i><font color=\"#333399\"> The required Mass vestments were also simplified (e.g., optionality of the maniple).  In 1967, the cope was supressed in the Asperges (rite of aspersion at High Mass).  The chasuble was worn in its stead.  The Canon was still required to be read in Latin until 1967, when it was permitted in the vernacular.  In the 1965 Missal, the priest, when administering Communion, says &laquo;the Body of Christ&raquo; (or &laquo;Corpus Christi&raquo;) instead of &laquo;Corpus + Domini nostri Jesu Christi custodiat animam tuam ad vitam aeternam&raquo; (that is, &laquo;May the Body + of our Lord Jesus Christ bring thy soul unto life everlasting&raquo;).<\/p>\n<p>Options for congregational singing also exist in the 1965, exactly as they do in the Novus Ordo &#8212; with places for processional, offertory, communion, and recessional hymns.  The 1965 also allows for the Prayer of the Faithful after the Creed.  The prayers at the foot of the altar, in addition to being made entirely optional, were shortened (as they would previously be prayed at Requiem Masses).  The Last Gospel was suppressed.  The calendar follows the Tridentine Ordo, consistent with that of the previous Missal (Missale Romanum 1962).  Ironically enough, the New St. Joseph&#8217;s Missal ends the Liturgical Calendar in 1970.<\/p>\n<p>As is clearly evident, the 1965 Missal more than accomplished all of the goals of Sacrosanctum Concilium and the Second Vatican Council.  The promulgation of a New Order of Mass was unnecessary.  And, as you will see below, the translation of the 1965 Order of Mass is far superior to the faulty ICEL translation of the 1970 Mass.<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;- <a href=\"http:\/\/www.coreyzelinski.8m.com\/1965_Mass\/\">SEE THE MASS HERE<\/a> &#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211; <\/font><\/i><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jeg er glad for \u00e5 ha l\u00e6rt den Tradisjonelle Latinske Messen; det er mange ting i den messen alle katolske prester b\u00f8r kjenne til. Samtidig har jeg oppdaga (spesielt de siste ukene) at jeg ikke er noen purist mht. hvordan messen ble feiret f\u00f8r 1900, eller f\u00f8r 1950. Jeg syns f.eks. gjerne at folket (ikke [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[11,12],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3571","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-liturgi","category-tlm"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3571","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3571"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3571\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5470,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3571\/revisions\/5470"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3571"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3571"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3571"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}