{"id":3737,"date":"2008-11-12T17:45:22","date_gmt":"2008-11-12T16:45:22","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/aomoi.net\/blog\/arkiv\/1546"},"modified":"2012-02-13T11:26:22","modified_gmt":"2012-02-13T10:26:22","slug":"mer-om-den-norske-oversettelsen-av-messen-offeret-blir-uklart","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/2008\/11\/mer-om-den-norske-oversettelsen-av-messen-offeret-blir-uklart\/","title":{"rendered":"Mer om den norske oversettelsen av messen &#8211; offeret blir uklart"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Den alvorligste feilen i den norske oversettelsen av messen, som er presten oppfordring &laquo;Orate fratres ..&raquo; ved offertoriet, <a href=\"\/blog\/arkiv\/794\">har jeg faktisk skrevet om f\u00f8r<\/a> (det avsl\u00f8rte et s\u00f8k i min egen blog) &#8211;  i juni 2007, men jeg tar det p\u00e5 nytt igjen her:<\/p>\n<p><i>Den norske oversettelsen, i messeboka fra 1982, har i alle fall \u00e9n alvorlig feil. Og det er en feil som (sannsynligvis) ikke tilfeldig ber\u00f8rer selve offeraspektet av messen. Under offertoriet, f\u00f8r b\u00f8nna over offergavene, sier presten: \u201cLa oss be til Gud, den allmektige, at han vil motta sin Kirkes offer av v\u00e5re hender.\u201d Og menigheten svarer: \u201cTil lov og \u00e6re for sitt navn og til hele verdens frelse.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Men her er teksten egentlig (og den er identisk med den tridentinske messen): Or\u00e1te, fratres: ut meum ac vestrum sacrif\u00edcium accept\u00e1bile fiat apud Deum Patrem omnipot\u00e9ntem. (Be br\u00f8dre, at mitt og deres offer m\u00e5 v\u00e6re akseptabelt for Gud Fader, den allmektige.) Og svaret er: Susc\u00edpiat D\u00f3minus sacrif\u00edcium de m\u00e1nibus tuis ad laudem et gl\u00f3riam n\u00f3minis sui, ad utilit\u00e1tem quoque nostram toti\u00fasque Eccl\u00e9si\u00e6 su\u00e6 sanct\u00e6. (M\u00e5 Herren motta dette offeret fra dine hender til lov og \u00e6re for sitt navn, til nytte for oss og for hele hans hellige Kirke.)<\/p>\n<p>Spesielt det norske svaret er her helt ugjenkjennelig, men i b\u00e5de oppfordring og svar blir det viktige offeraspektet \u2013 \u201cved prestens hender\u201d, \u201cprestens og menighetens offer\u201d \u2013 uklart og nesten helt skjult. Det syns jeg er sv\u00e6rt uheldig.<\/i><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Den alvorligste feilen i den norske oversettelsen av messen, som er presten oppfordring &laquo;Orate fratres ..&raquo; ved offertoriet, har jeg faktisk skrevet om f\u00f8r (det avsl\u00f8rte et s\u00f8k i min egen blog) &#8211; i juni 2007, men jeg tar det p\u00e5 nytt igjen her: Den norske oversettelsen, i messeboka fra 1982, har i alle fall [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[11],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3737","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-liturgi"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3737","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3737"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3737\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5407,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3737\/revisions\/5407"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3737"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3737"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3737"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}