{"id":4024,"date":"2009-05-12T14:47:19","date_gmt":"2009-05-12T12:47:19","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/aomoi.net\/blog\/arkiv\/1852"},"modified":"2012-02-13T11:24:20","modified_gmt":"2012-02-13T10:24:20","slug":"tanker-om-hvordan-messen-b%c3%b8r-feires-elementer-fra-den-gamle-og-den-nye-messen","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/2009\/05\/tanker-om-hvordan-messen-b%c3%b8r-feires-elementer-fra-den-gamle-og-den-nye-messen\/","title":{"rendered":"Tanker om hvordan messen b\u00f8r feires – elementer fra den gamle og den nye messen"},"content":{"rendered":"

Fredag sist uke ble det skrevet en blog-post der en typisk feiring av den nye messen og en typisk feiring av den gamle messen blir sammenligna – les den her<\/a> (og her kommenteres den<\/a> av Father Z).<\/p>\n

Noen av de mange kommentarene p\u00e5peker at ofte feires den nye messen bedre enn i denne beskrivelsen fra USA (bl.a. i London, og heldigvis ogs\u00e5 i Norge), men realitetene ser likevel ut til \u00e5 v\u00e6re at sv\u00e6rt mange steder i verden feires katolske messer sv\u00e6rt lite h\u00f8ytidelig\/ respektfullt.<\/p>\n

Forfatteren av det opprinnelige innlegget skriver oppklarende et stykke ut i debatten:
\nJust to be clear, the article isn’t intended to address the Novus Ordo simpliciter, but only my own observations upon revisiting two subsequent Sunday services at a fairly average (in my experience) Novus Ordo suburban American parish.<\/p>\n

I have assisted at Novus Ordo Masses at the Brompton Oratory, Westminster Cathedral, the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, and regularly assist at weekday Novus Ordo liturgies where liturgical orthopraxy is the norm. It is altogether another question how the EF and NO liturgies compare as they are each meant to be conducted. I do not address that issue here. <\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Noen kommentarer sier at problemet i messen begynte da presten vente seg mot folket; da ble han lett oppfatta \/ og oppfatta kanskje seg selv som en entertainer, og oppf\u00f8rte seg gradvis deretter. Det er muligens ei korrekt forklaring, ialle fall skulle jeg \u00f8nske at ad orientem messer skulle blir vanligere.<\/p>\n

Men mht bruken av den tradisjonelle latinske messen, m\u00e5 jeg nok si meg enig med en av kommentarene til det opprinnelige innlegget (og jeg skal pr\u00f8ve \u00e5 skrive mer om det snart):
\nI concluded long ago that whilst the EF may be superior to the OF, it will never again become the normative use of the Roman church. The best we can hope for is for it’s influence to be felt in the OF. Mass as celebrated at Santa Trinita dei Pelligrine will not be how we the vast swathe of the Roman church worships any longer. Mass as celebrated at Westminster Cathedral, St John Cantius, etc… Now that is actually achievable.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Fredag sist uke ble det skrevet en blog-post der en typisk feiring av den nye messen og en typisk feiring av den gamle messen blir sammenligna – les den her (og her kommenteres den av Father Z). Noen av de mange kommentarene p\u00e5peker at ofte feires den nye messen bedre enn i denne beskrivelsen fra […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[11],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4024","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-liturgi"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4024","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4024"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4024\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5299,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4024\/revisions\/5299"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4024"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4024"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4024"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}