{"id":4427,"date":"2010-03-25T16:09:36","date_gmt":"2010-03-25T14:09:36","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/aomoi.net\/blog\/arkiv\/2266"},"modified":"2012-02-13T11:22:00","modified_gmt":"2012-02-13T10:22:00","slug":"hva-betyr-det-nar-man-setter-inn-et-bord-isteden-for-et-alter","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/2010\/03\/hva-betyr-det-nar-man-setter-inn-et-bord-isteden-for-et-alter\/","title":{"rendered":"Hva betyr det n\u00e5r man setter inn et bord isteden for et alter?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I juni 1994 var jeg ei uke i Amsterdam og omegn, og bes\u00f8kte da naturlig nok mange kirker &#8211; mange byer i Nederland har en gammel og en ny kirke, fra henholdsvis 12- og 1300-tallet. Alle disse kirkene hadde selvsagt v\u00e6rt katolske, og n\u00e5 var de kalvinistiske. Og alle disse kirkene hadde t\u00f8mt koret, alter og alt annet var vanligvis tatt bort, og s\u00e5 hadde man satt opp et stort nattverdbord og en prekestol, vanligvis p\u00e5 tvers i kirkerommet.<\/p>\n<p>Denne uka i 1994 var ekstra viktig for meg; jeg hadde sendt brev til menighetsr\u00e5det i den lutherske kirken jeg tidlgere hadde jobba i, og fortalt dem at jeg n\u00e5 var i ferd med \u00e5 bli katolikk. Jeg reagerte derfor ekstra sterkt p\u00e5 denne raseringa av de gamle kirkene, og p\u00e5 den kalvinistiske forst\u00e5elsen av nattverden bare som et symbolsk m\u00e5ltid &#8211; forskjellig fra lutheranerne, som tror p\u00e5 realpresensen (om ikke p\u00e5 eukaristien som et offer), og som ikke raserte alterne i kirkene de overtok fra katolikkene.<\/p>\n<p>Jeg tenkte en del p\u00e5 denne uka i 1994, da jeg sist uke var i n\u00f8rd-\u00f8st Italia, og bes\u00f8kte ca 40 kirker. Av disse brukte absolutt alle et bordalter (der presten st\u00e5r vendt mot folket), bare i \u00e9n kirke s\u00e5 jeg et krusifiks p\u00e5 midten av alteret (som pave Benedikt sterkt har anbefalt), og i to av kirkene var det gamle h\u00f8yalteret tatt bort (slik man oftest har gjort i Norge). Man lurer p\u00e5 hva denne forandringen av alterne betyr prestenes og de troendes syn p\u00e5 eukaristien, bevisst eller ubevisst.<\/p>\n<p>Posistivt kan man si om bildene under fra 9 kirker i Venezia, at de ofte har flere fine og behagelige (spisebord)stoler bak hvert bord &#8211; bortsett fra det siste bildet, der de han en dr\u00f8ss av plaststoler.<\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"> <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/blog\/bilde\/10mars_alter_venezia1.jpg\"\/> <\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"> <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/blog\/bilde\/10mars_alter_venezia2.jpg\"\/> <\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"> <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/blog\/bilde\/10mars_alter_venezia3.jpg\"\/> <\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"> <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/blog\/bilde\/10mars_alter_venezia4.jpg\"\/> <\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"> <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/blog\/bilde\/10mars_alter_venezia5.jpg\"\/> <\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"> <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/blog\/bilde\/10mars_alter_venezia6.jpg\"\/> <\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"> <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/blog\/bilde\/10mars_alter_venezia7.jpg\"\/> <\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"> <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/blog\/bilde\/10mars_alter_venezia8.jpg\"\/> <\/p>\n<p align=\"center\"> <img decoding=\"async\" src=\"\/blog\/bilde\/10mars_alter_venezia9.jpg\"\/> <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I juni 1994 var jeg ei uke i Amsterdam og omegn, og bes\u00f8kte da naturlig nok mange kirker &#8211; mange byer i Nederland har en gammel og en ny kirke, fra henholdsvis 12- og 1300-tallet. Alle disse kirkene hadde selvsagt v\u00e6rt katolske, og n\u00e5 var de kalvinistiske. Og alle disse kirkene hadde t\u00f8mt koret, alter [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[11],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4427","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-liturgi"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4427","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4427"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4427\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5149,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4427\/revisions\/5149"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4427"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4427"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4427"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}