{"id":8662,"date":"2013-08-12T14:24:05","date_gmt":"2013-08-12T12:24:05","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/?p=8662"},"modified":"2013-08-19T14:39:20","modified_gmt":"2013-08-19T12:39:20","slug":"om-bruk-av-morsmalet-i-messen","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/2013\/08\/om-bruk-av-morsmalet-i-messen\/","title":{"rendered":"Om bruk av morsm\u00e5let i messen"},"content":{"rendered":"

Liturgibloggen PrayTell (som ikke er s\u00e6rlig tradisjonell\/konservativ) skrev tidligere i august<\/a> om Vatikankonsilets konstusjon Sacrosanctum Concilium (les den p\u00e5 norsk her<\/a>), artikkel 54:<\/p>\n

Morsm\u00e5let kan gis en passende plass i de messer der folket er til stede, s\u00e6rlig med hensyn til lesningene og kirkeb\u00f8nnen, og etter som de lokale forhold tilsier det, ogs\u00e5 i de deler som tilkommer folket, i samsvar med art. 36 i denne konstitusjon. En skal allikevel s\u00f8rge for at de troende er i stand til \u00e5 resitere eller synge p\u00e5 latin de av messens faste deler som tilkommer dem. Der hvor det imidlertid synes \u00e5 v\u00e6re \u00f8nskelig med en mer omfattende bruk av morsm\u00e5let i messen, skal man holde seg til art. 40 i denne konstitusjon.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Om dette skriver s\u00e5 PrayTell:<\/p>\n

The Council Fathers apply the general permission to employ the vernacular in Catholic worship found in article 36.2 to the particular case of the celebration of the Eucharist. There \u201creadings and directives, \u2026 some \u2026 prayers and chants\u201d are mentioned; here readings in the vernacular are reiterated and \u201cthe common prayer\u201d (which had been restored in the preceding article) is also proposed to be prayed in the vernacular. …. The Council Fathers also direct that worshipers should be prepared to say or chant the Latin texts of the Order Missae appropriate for assembly members, although they do not suggest the means by which this is to be done.<\/p>\n

Pray, Tell readers may wish to discuss: 1) the wisdom of these directives in the light of fifty years\u2019 experience; 2) how these directives have or have not been fulfilled and how that is to be interpreted (the \u201creception\u201d of these directives); and\/or 3) the practical processes by which the directives have been implemented.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

S\u00e5 kan man lese 83 ganske interessante kommentarer. Jeg syns kommentar #39, av Fr. Allan J. McDonald er spesielt interessant; han mener at spr\u00e5kforandringen ikke var det viktigste, heller ikke at man snudde alteret, men heller forandringene i messens rubrikker mellom 1965 og 1969:<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know if that is true or not, but the point I was making is that Latin for the laity, at least in this country, was dropped in favor of English almost overnight and codified in a missal that was basically Tridentine. It was the Tridentine Mass in English that could be celebrated facing the congregation that was warmly accepted in a pre-Vatican II sort of way by the laity, but I truly think even old-time Catholics of that period liked the English and embraced it, but in the context of the Tridentine Mass. The only value to saving Latin is a common language amongst the diversity of nationalities when celebrating Mass but also an acknowledgement of our liturgical heritage that is common to Latin Rite Catholics. How much Latin or how little is the question. Evidently many parishes preserve it in some fashion, but there is no consistency.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Liturgibloggen PrayTell (som ikke er s\u00e6rlig tradisjonell\/konservativ) skrev tidligere i august om Vatikankonsilets konstusjon Sacrosanctum Concilium (les den p\u00e5 norsk her), artikkel 54: Morsm\u00e5let kan gis en passende plass i de messer der folket er til stede, s\u00e6rlig med hensyn til lesningene og kirkeb\u00f8nnen, og etter som de lokale forhold tilsier det, ogs\u00e5 i de […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[11],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-8662","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-liturgi"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8662","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=8662"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8662\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":8666,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8662\/revisions\/8666"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=8662"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=8662"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/aomoi.net\/blogg\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=8662"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}