My first indication that Give Us This Day wouldn’t be of much use was when I looked at the Order of Worship handout. No Penitential Act, Gloria, or Collect. No first reading, responsorial psalm, second reading, Alleluia, or Gospel. Rather: song, prayer by female prayer leader, song repeated; welcome talk by another woman; song; a man read from Dorothee Sölle; homily by another woman; song; and on to the collection with piano intermezzo. Uh, no Nicene Creed. Then a table prayer with sung elements (no Sanctus) led by seven people (5 women, 2 men, none vested), and sharing of the bread and wine. Then general intercessions, blessing, and song. Coffee served at the platform.
I was flabbergasted by all this, to say the least. ….
Det var nok ingen gyldig katolsk messe som ble feiret denne dagen, og i en kommentar til innlegget (men så ble det tidlig stengt for flere kommentarer) skriver Paul Inwood:
… First of all, I agree that the Dominicuskerk is on the edge of the radar. It is heading towards what Huijbers and others described as a “post-Christian” incarnation. From what AWR says, it has moved even further than the last time I was there. I think the primary value at play in the gathering is that it is the assembly that confects the Eucharist: i.e. all are concelebrants in a deeper sense than RC theology would currently accept. Young people have drifted away because the advanced theological options espoused by communities such as this are simply too hard work for them.
Secondly, in earlier days the bishops recognized that by alienating themselves they would not help the pragmatic Dutch Church to get through the post-VII transition. A bishop like Zwartkruis would take tea every Sunday afternoon with his married clergy and his priests who had “left” but who were still actively ministering and had not been laicized (people like Oosterhuis, who BTW is a text writer rather than a composer). They would discuss pastoral strategy. This was not officially known, but many were aware of it.
A new generation of conservative bishops, led by the likes of Simonis, put paid to any future dialogue. A significant proportion of the Church simply went underground, and is still there. People are still attending some form of Eucharist — and it may bear some resemblance to AWR’s experience — just not visibly, unlike the Dominicuskerk folk; and so those people do not form part of the official statistics. In fact the bishops would prefer not to acknowledge their existence at all.
Thirdly, this is not just a Catholic problem. Non-catholic Christians in Holland are in the same situation. Official numbers have plummeted. Unofficial numbers are not accurately known any longer. …