Forfatternavn:Oddvar

Enda en gang om de såkalte folkets alter

Liturgi /

Fra vår vinterferie i Italia i 2008 skrev jeg om helt upassende bordalter i mange av Italias nydelige kirker – og jeg viste et par bilder jeg hadde tatt på turen:

Først et bilde fra St Adrea della valle i Roma.

Så et bilde fra St Maria supra Minerva – også sentralt i Roma.

På NLM-bloggen leste jeg i dag om en person som hadde tatt en lignende tur i Spania, og konkluderte med at «Alterne må snus igjen nå»:

I’ve long been convinced of the case for the celebrant’s facing East during Mass, to preserve the symbolism of a people led by the priest in procession, and also because facing the people has given the impression that the celebrant is performing for the people. It is not just the direction that he faces that is reoriented. It is the focus of the liturgy itself that becomes reoriented.

However, it is not until just today that I full appreciated the negative and revolutionary effect that Mass facing the people had on the historic experience of the faith. I’m touring chapels and cathedrals in Salamanca, Spain. It is heartbreaking to see these grand and glorious high altars and then a tiny little table in front, put there in 1970-something, for the priest to stand facing the people. In the stunning chapel of the St. Esteban Convent, it would appear as if the high altar was actually removed and replaced with a table, therefore removing the theological rationale for the entire wall behind the altar and even refocusing the purpose and goal of the entire structure itself.

In short, this just isn’t working. It makes no sense architecturally, theologically, or liturgically. Being here, amidst structures 1000 years old, you realize what incredible implications the turn around truly had, almost akin to an act of violence.

Gratulerer biskop Bernt Eidsvig!

Katolsk /

I dag er årsdag for bispevielsen i Oslo katolske bispedømme, og i alle bispedømmets kirker takker vi for biskop Bernts tjeneste og ber spesielt for ham – slik også i messen jeg nettopp feiret i St Hallvard kirke. (Bildet over er tatt mens prosesjonen kommer ut av Trefoldighetskirken i Oslo etter messen.)

Les mer om biskopen HER og om bispevielsen 22. oktober 2005 HER.

Nyheten om anglikanere som vil bli katolikker er viktig først og fremst i England

Økumenikk /

Det bor anglikanere over hele verden, men aller flest i England, og derfor skrives det mest der om pavens avgjørelse. Damian Thompson i The Telegraph skriver bl.a.:
New era begins as Benedict throws open gates of Rome to disaffected Anglicans
This is astonishing news. Pope Benedict XVI has created an entirely new Church structure for disaffected Anglicans that will allow them to worship together – using elements of Anglican liturgy – under the pastoral supervision of their own specially appointed bishop or senior priest.

The Pope is now offering Anglicans worldwide “corporate reunion” on terms that will delight Anglo-Catholics. In theory, they can have their own married priests, parishes and bishops – and they will be free of liturgical interference by liberal Catholic bishops who are unsympathetic to their conservative stance.

There is even the possibility that married Anglican laymen could be accepted for ordination on a case-by-case basis – a remarkable concession. (Men er dette siste rett forstått?)

Han skriver også et annet sted:
… … apparently both Lambeth Palace and elements in the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity were “implacably opposed” to Pope Benedict XVI’s dramatic new arrangements for Anglicans.

Hvordan skjedde det, og hva vil skje nå?

Økumenikk /

Ruth Gledhill i TimesOnline skriver om reaksjonene på pave Benedikts invitasjon til anglikanere som vil bli katolikker, om hvordan avgjørelsen ble tatt, og litt om hva som nå kan/vil skje:
His decree is a serious blow to attempts by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, to save the Anglican Communion from further fragmentation and threatens to wreck decades of ecumenical dialogue. … …

Anglicans privately accused Rome of poaching and attacked Dr Williams for capitulating to the Vatican. Some called for his resignation. Although there was little he could have done to forestall the move, many were dismayed at his joint statement with the Archbishop of Westminster in which they spoke of Anglicans “willing to declare that they share a common Catholic faith and accept the Petrine ministry as willed by Christ for his Church”.

In a letter to bishops and clergy, Dr Williams made clear his own discomfiture. He wrote: “I am sorry that there has been no opportunity to alert you earlier to this. I was informed of the planned announcement at a very late stage.”

The Bishop of Fulham, the Right Rev John Broadhurst, chairman of Forward in Faith, which opposes women bishops, hailed it as a “decisive moment” and predicted that, based on his group’s membership, up to 1,000 Church of England clergy could go. … …

This deal was done with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly the Holy Inquisition that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger himself headed before he became Pope.

The Council for Christian Unity was not represented at simultaneous press conferences in Rome and London, suggesting that the Pope has had enough of dialogue focusing on canonical moves towards unity. Dr Williams was briefed formally only when Cardinal William Levada, of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, flew to London at the weekend to tell Anglican and Catholic leaders of the plans. It is understood that leading members of the council and other senior Anglican and Catholic figures tried desperately to block the decree. … …

Erkebiskop Nichols er overrasket over pave Benedikts generøsitet

Økumenikk /

Dette skriver erkebiskopen i The Catholic Herald i dag:
The announcement of this Apostolic Constitution has come as a surprise. So, too, has the generosity of its measures. It is important to understand its context as well as its content.

The Apostolic Constitution is the response of Pope Benedict to the approaches which have been made to the Holy See by groups of Anglicans, in different parts of the world, asking for full visible communion within the Catholic Church. It is, then, a response, not an initiative, by the Holy See. It is a response designed to establish a provision which will be equitable and uniform in whatever part of the world it may be taken up.

It has a particular purpose: to permit those who wish to live their faith in full visible union with the See of Peter to do so while also preserving elements of the distinctive Anglican spiritual and liturgical patrimony. So this is a response to those who have declared that they share the common Catholic faith and accept the Pope’s ministry as something Christ willed for the Church. In the words of Cardinal Levada: «For them, the time has come to express this implicit unity in the visible form of full communion.»

… This is an extraordinary moment. It is a challenge and an opportunity on many fronts. I salute the courage and generosity of Pope Benedict who has again shown an open and loving heart, just as one would expect of a Holy Father.

Pavens svært generøse svar får meg til å tenke 15 år tilbake

Økumenikk /

I 1992/3 konverterte mange anglikanske prester til Den katolske Kirke, og Vatikanet (og kardinal Hume) var da villige til å gå svært langt for å gjøre denne overgangen smidig for dem, men de mange andre katolske biskopene i England ville ikke være med på dette. Derfor måtte alle disse prestene konvertere og forberede seg til katolsk ordinasjon individuelt, og møtte ofte lite hjelp og vennlighet. Men om man tålte en trøkk eller to, og ikke ikke ga seg, så ble man katolsk prest omsider – men man fikk ikke ta med seg noen av sine åndelige og liturgiske tradisjoner. (Leserne forstår kanskje at jeg delvis også snakker om meg egen konvertering og forberedelse til katolsk prestetjeneste 1994-99.) Men om den lokale katolske geistligheten klarte å stoppe pavens ønske om å være generøs i 1993, så skjer ikke det samme igjen i 2009. Slik skriver den engelske presten Fr Tim Finigan:

The Holy See has been working for years on this matter and has always been in favour of generous provision, in accordance with the historic attitude of the Holy See to include those whose traditions are not necessarily entirely Roman. In 1993 (after the ordination of women was approved in the Church of England), it was local Catholic Bishops who opposed any arrangements for corporate reunion, however, the radical liberal agenda at work in the Anglican Communion has so changed the landscape in the intervening period that even the most liberal of Catholic Bishops are no longer a priori opposed to such a corporate provision.

The process leading to the new Apostolic Constitution has been an extraordinarily complex, in-depth study, involving widespread consultation, and including communications with sitting Bishops of the Anglican Communion who were in favour of some such arrangement. The Holy See could not simply refuse to talk to such parties clamouring for full canonical union with the Catholic Church. Naturally the process of consultation involved the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity, whose Secretary (Bishop Brian Farrell) is a Consultor of the CDF, and whose President (Cardinal Kasper) is one of the 15 Cardinal Members of the CDF. Some elements within the Pontifical Council were obviously not too happy with the whole notion of corporate reunion, however, in the end they were outvoted.

… … The arrangements offered by the Holy See are courageous and to be welcomed. They show yet again the determination of Pope Benedict XVI to promote unity within the Church without insisting on uniformity of rites or customs. The Holy See’s provision of the new arrangements is a historic landmark for genuine Christian Unity as envisaged by Vatican II understood genuinely as in continuity with the tradition of the Church.

Katolsk.no skriver om pave Benedikts nye økumeniske initiativ

Katolsk, Økumenikk /

Katolsk.no skriver grundig og innsiktsfullt om gårsdagens nyhet (se nedenfor), men jeg er ikke enig i at det er så veldig overraskende. Man har ventet spent de siste månedene på svaret til TAC, på et spørsmål de kom med for to år siden, så at det kom et svar var ventet og svært etterlenget. Men det er vel korrekt at man ikke hadde regna med at paven skulle utvide muligheten til å beholde enkelte anglikanske tradisjoner – som TAC hadde bedt om for seg selv, og som allerede eksisterer i noen «anglican use» menigheten i USA.

Gårsdagens nyhet om at Vatikanet godkjenner en ny apostolisk konstitusjon, som åpner for de tradisjonelle anglikaneres ‘hjemkomst’ til Roma, kom som et sjokk på mange. Aktiviteten på blogger og nyhetssider, både på katolsk og anglikansk side, har vært kokende. Hva er så de praktiske konsekvensene?

Den nye apostoliske konstitusjon kommer i følge kilder som et svar på en to år gammel forespørsel fra TAC (Traditional Anglican Communion), som brøt med Den anglikanske kirke i 1991 grunnet striden rundt ordinasjon av kvinnelige prester.

Konstitusjonen åpner for at anglikanske biskoper, prester og legfolk kan oppnå full kommunion med Den katolske kirke, og samtidig får beholde særskilte anglikanske skikker og liturgi som er i samsvar med katolsk tradisjon.

Mens man tidligere måtte sørge for individuelle ordninger ved konvertering, åpnes det nå altså for kollektive ordninger, det vil si at hele menigheter og bispedømmer i fellesskap kan konvertere til Den katolske tro. …

Det nye personlaprelaturet for tidligere anglikanere kan få svært stor betydning

Økumenikk /

Dette skriver John Allen i dag – det kan bli en vei inn til Den katolske Kirke for inntil 80 millioner anglikanere:
In a move with potentially sweeping implications for relations between the Catholic church and some 80 million Anglicans worldwide, the Vatican has announced the creation of new ecclesiastical structures to absorb disaffected Anglicans wishing to become Catholics. The structures will allow those Anglicans to hold onto their distinctive spiritual practices, including the ordination of married former Anglican clergy as Catholic priests.

Those structures would be open to members of the Episcopal Church in the United States, the main American branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion. American Episcopalians are said to number some 2.2 million.

I en grundigere artikkel skriver Allen at dette svaret fra Vatikanet til spørsmålet fra TAC (Traditional Anglican Communion) var litt annerledes enn venta, siden det ikke bare svarer disse 400 000 anglikanerne, men egentlig alle anglikanere i verden:

The announcement came this morning in Rome in a news conference with two Americans: Cardinal William Levada, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and Archbishop Augustine Di Noia, Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

Though the announcement did not single out any specific group of Anglicans, it responds to a request made two years ago by a breakaway group known as the “Traditional Anglican Communion,” a network claiming to represent some 400,000 Anglicans worldwide, including more than 5,000 in the United States, unhappy with liberalizing moves in the Anglican Communion, including the ordination of women as priests and bishops, the ordination of openly gay clergy and bishops, and the blessing of same-sex unions.

Rather than absorbing that bloc en masse, today’s move creates the possibility that bishops’ conferences around the world can create personal ordinariates, a special structure that’s tantamount to a non-territorial diocese, to accept Anglicans under the leadership of a former Anglican minister who would be designated a bishop.

According to a Vatican “note” released this morning, former Anglican clergy who are married may serve as priests in the new ordinariates, but they may not be ordained as bishops. Seminarians for the new ordinariates must be trained alongside other Catholic seminarians, though they may have separate houses of formation.

The details will be presented in a new apostolic constitution from Pope Benedict XVI, expected to be issued shortly. …

Økumeniske samtaler en forutsetning for at tradisjonelle anglikanere kan bli katolikker

Økumenikk /

Eller ettere sagt; de er en nødvendig historisk bakgrunn for at disse anglikanerne kan få med seg en del av sin tradisjon, liturgi og prester inn i den katolske kirke. For hvis ikke en stor grad av enhet hadde kommet fram gjennom 40 års økumeniske samtaler, hadde ikke den katolske kirke ønsket å ta opp i seg disse anglikanske tyradisjonene.

Slik leser i alle fal jeg uttalelsen fra erkebiskokop Vincent Nichols og anglikanske erkebiskop Rowan Williams i dag:
The announcement of this Apostolic Constitution brings to an end a period of uncertainty for such groups who have nurtured hopes of new ways of embracing unity with the Catholic Church. It will now be up to those who have made requests to the Holy See to respond to the Apostolic Constitution.

The Apostolic Constitution is further recognition of the substantial overlap in faith, doctrine and spirituality between the Catholic Church and the Anglican tradition. Without the dialogues of the past forty years, this recognition would not have been possible, nor would hopes for full visible unity have been nurtured. In this sense, this Apostolic Constitution is one consequence of ecumenical dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion.

The on-going official dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion provides the basis for our continuing cooperation. The Anglican Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC) and International Anglican Roman Catholic Commission for Unity and Mission (IARCCUM) agreements make clear the path we will follow together.

Tusenvis av anglikanere vil nå bli katolikker

Katolsk, Økumenikk /

Jeg leste i dag tidlig (bl.a. her) om en pressekonferanse som skulle holdes kl 11 i Vatikanet i dag, ang. anglikanerne. Man regnet med at nyheten ville være at TAC (Traditional Anglican Communion) ville få svar på sin forespørsel om å bli opptatt i sin katolske kirke – og til en viss grad få beholde sine tradisjoner og deler av liturgien, og sine gifte prester.

Man gjettet riktig, for så langt vet vi følgende: The Vatican has announced that Pope Benedict is setting up special provision for Anglicans, including married clergy, who want to convert to Rome together, preserving aspects of Anglican liturgy. They will be given their own pastoral supervision, according to this press release from the Vatican:

“In this Apostolic Constitution the Holy Father has introduced a canonical structure that provides for such corporate reunion by establishing Personal Ordinariates which will allow former Anglicans to enter full communion with the Catholic Church while preserving elements of the distinctive Anglican spiritual and liturgical patrimony.”

More on this very important story later. But this is clearly a historic gesture by Pope Benedict which will encourage thousands of disaffected Anglicans to become Roman Catholics.

Mer informasjon på italiensk her.

OPPDATERING kl 1315:
Notatet fra Troskongregasjonen på engelsk.

Den tradisjonelle latinske messen feiret i Peterskirken

TLM /

Messen ble feiret søndag morgen i sakramentskapellet, og var en pontifikal høymesse feiret av erkebiskop Raymond Burke.

Messen ble feiret som en del av en konferanse i Roma sist helg om den tradisjonelle latinske messen (les mer om den her), og noen sier at det var første gang på 40 år at den tradisjonelle messen ble feiret i Peterskirken.

Her kan man se mange bilder fra messen, her også – og her ser man videoer fra åpning og avslutning av messen.

En som var til stede under messen nevner hvordan Credo ble avsunget: The most moving moment of the Mass (perhaps of any Mass I have ever attended) was the Credo. After Archbishop Burke intoned the Credo, the organ and schola proceeded as usual with the Mass setting. However, during the «Et incarnatus est…» the organ was silenced and the large schola broke into a mesmerizing harmony, swelling gradually to a full-throated, thundering «ET HOMO FACTUS EST.» By the time we rose from the genuflection, several near me were weeping openly.

Egentlig burde dette ikke være nytt for noen, siden det ble kunngjort flere steder, bl.a. på Rorate cæli 23. juli.
… as the culminating activity of the Second Convention on Summorum Pontificum organized by Giovani e Tradizione, a Solemn Pontifical Mass according to the classical Roman Rite will be celebrated in the Chapel of Eucharistic Adoration in St. Peter’s Basilica on Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 10:00 a.m. The Mass will be offered by His Excellency, Archbishop Raymond Leo Burke, Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura. Music will be provided by a mixed choir of Franciscans of the Immaculate.

Bør vi gi opp offisielle økumeniske samtaler?

Økumenikk /

Det mener Fr. Dwight Longenecker tydeligvis. Han er tidligere anglikansk prest, er gift og har flere barn – og er en ganske aktiv blogger.

Den «katolske ordinasjonen» av en kvinne i en luthersk kirke i Chicago – se her – (og sikkert også andre ting) har gjort ham mektig irritert: (Some people) are hopping mad about something, and I am too. They refer to a report from Chicago where a Lutheran congregation allowed their church to be used for a service purporting to be an ordination of Roman Catholic women priests. At the same time in today’s news over at CNA is this report that Cardinal Kaspar (the friendly ghost) has got Pope Benedict to visit a Lutheran Church in Rome.

When is the Vatican going to wake up to the reality about Anglicanism and Lutheranism? I know from my time in the Anglican Church that the theologians they send to Rome to engage in ecumenical discussions are those who are already friendly towards the Catholic Church and are very good at dressing up their Protestant beliefs in Catholic terminology. They’re a suave and slippery lot, and I expect the Lutheran ‘partners in dialogue’ are much the same.

Catholic bloggers have reported that the Vatican is one of the places their blogs are read. If anybody over there is reading this blog will you please do something about this? If you are reading this blog and you know your blog is read in the Vatican, will you link to this post?

The message to the powers that be is real simple:

1. Mainstream Anglicans and Lutherans do not want to be in communion with the Holy See. Despite their smooth manner and diplomatic form and seeming admiration for Rome they can’t really stomach the Catholic faith at all.
2. This is proved by the regular and repeated slaps in the face they give Rome.
3. Continued ecumenical discussions with mainstream Anglicanism and Lutheranism is not only a waste of time, it’s dishonest to all involved.
4. It’s more than a waste of time. It is helping people who only want to use their good relations with the Vatican as icing on their corrupt cake.

Selv syns jeg nok man skal skille mellom det gledelige faktum at katolikkers forhold til mange kristne har blitt svært mye bedre de siste 40 år, og på det like klare faktum at de offisielle økumeniske samtalene ser ut til å ha kjørt seg ganske fast – og at våre samtalepartnere faktisk beveger seg bort fra katolsk tro på enkelte områder.

Kardinal Kaspers bok om økumeniske resultater de siste 40 år

Økumenikk /

Vi leser at Kardinal Kasper nylig har utgitt ei bok om resultatene av 40 år med økumeniske samtaler etter Vatikankonsilet: A new book on ecumenism, written by members of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, was presented at the Vatican today by Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the same council. The book aims to look “both to the past and to the future» of ecumenical efforts. The new work, which is entitled «Harvesting the Fruits. Basic Aspects of Christian Faith in Ecumenical Dialogue. Ecumenical Consensus, Convergences and Differences,» was recently published by the London-based publisher Continuum.

Cardinal Kasper explained at the Vatican’s press office that the new publication «is the result of two years of intense efforts I undertook with officials of my pontifical council, in collaboration with our consultors and ecumenical partners.”

The work is dedicated to analyzing the main Protestant communities that were the first to establish ties with the Church following the Second Vatican Council, as well as examining the current situation, «with an eye both to the past and to the future,» the cardinal explained.

During the presentation, Cardinal Kasper also announced that a symposium, due to be held in February 2010, will use the book as its starting point to discuss the future of Western ecumenism.

I den forbindelse sier Kasper også at pave Benedikt snart skal besøke den lutehrske kirken i Roma – men så langt er ingen dato fastsatt.

På et annet nettsted leser vi også følgende: As far as the book is concerned, Cardinal Kasper said that even the people working on it were «positively surprised at how much has been accomplished in these years. It is a very rich harvest that overcomes the polemics and the great historical problems of the Reformation.»

The cardinal said he knows that «even among some members of the Roman Curia» there sometimes is a feeling that ecumenism «has not borne any fruit and left us with our hands empty.»

But «that is not the official opinion» of the church, he said, pointing out that Cardinal William J. Levada, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is also a member of the council for Christian unity, and read the first draft of the book and made suggestions.

Also, he said, Pope Benedict XVI and Cardinal Levada were given the first copies of the completed edition of «Harvesting the Fruits.»

Økumeniske problemer i Tyskland

Økumenikk /

Nesten 10 år etter den berømte enigheten om rettferdiggjørelsen mellom katolikker og lutheranere, undertegnet i Augsburg 31/10-99, har man de siste månedene hatt stadig større problemer i de økumeniske relasjonene i Tyskland. Anna Arco skriver om et dokument produced for the Protestant EKD (Evangelische Kirche Deutschland) and subsequently leaked to the German press, the document was written for a conference in July but not published in full until recently.

The report (German) set out to look at three points and was less than complimentary. 1) Where does ecumenical dialogue stand? 2) “An awareness of irritations which are emanating from Rome” 3) What could these mean for the standing of ecumenical dialogue between the two Churches before the Ecumenical Church Days 2010. The “irritations” listed included the publication of Dominus Jesus in 2000 with its “famous-infamous description of the churches of the reformation which are not churches in an actual sense” which caused consternation and confusion as well as general criticism towards Pope Benedict. The report mentioned the Pope’s by now infamous address in Regensburg, the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum and of course, lifting the excommuncations hanging over the Lefebvrist bishops in January this year, among the problems they perceived to be coming from Rome.

It also listed the clerical child abuse scandals, lack of vocations and declining church membership as well as a defensive approach to Pentecostal Christianity in Latin America among further obstacles in ecumenical dialogue. It effectively accused the Vatican either of being incompetent in matters diplomatic or of having a strategy and intention which sets out to reverse the reforms of the Second Vatican Council.

Turning their eyes towards German ecumenism, the drafters of the report became more specific in their criticism. They viewed the appointment of Archbishop Robert Zollitsch of Freiburg to follow Cardinal Karl Lehman as the head of the German bishops conference with scepticism. He was marked as a “controversial and therefore weakened candidate” from whom a “leading and marking force does not emanate”.

The paper concluded that the Catholic Church was in the middle of an internal wrestling match between modernisers and traditionalists—those who wanted to accept the Second Vatican Council and those who did not. This would affect the relationship between the Catholic Church and the Protestant Church in Germany.

“Like a wounded boxer, the Catholic Church will sway between open gestures and rough delineation of boundaries, between ecumenical invitations and profile making delineation.”

Et annet sted leser vi at det sist onsdag ble avholdt et oppvaskmøte mellom katolikker og protestanter; et møte som gikk noenlunde bra. …

Økumeniske problemer i TysklandLes mer »

Skal Den norske kirke (også) offisielt foretrekke å feire messen versus populum?

Liturgi /

Jeg er (som de fleste vet) oppvokst i Den norske lutherske kirke, og var alltid vant til at presten vendte seg mot Gud når han ba – og ingen av oss tenkte en gang på at det kunne gjøres på en annen måte. Men den norske kirke har de siste årene langsomt snudd noen alter – ved nybygg og ombygging av kirker – og jeg fikk i går en e-post fra en prest i Den norske kirke, som skriver:

«Jeg ser at du har dratt i striden for den gamle latinske messen. Jeg har – som luthersk prest – ikke behov for å mene noe om det. Men for en tid tilbake gjenga du en uttalelse fra en engelsk kirkeleder om det å feire messen vendt mot forsamlingen, eller mot øst. Han karakteriserte den første ordningen med noe a la «at en gruppe hadde samlet seg for å snakke om Gud«. Nei, dette var langt fra det rette sitatet, men kanskje du husker hvordan det egentlig lød? Jeg kan ikke finne det igjen, så jeg er glad om du kunne hjelpe meg. Statskirkens liturgireform kan jo nemlig innebære at også versus populum blir normalordning også hos oss.»

Jeg svarte ham at det kanskje kunne være i dette innlegget, men kanskje det heller er i dette, eller i noen eldre innlegg: kommentarene til 1795, i 1719 eller 1669.

Kanskje noen av leserne husker bedre enn meg hvor dette stod på bloggen?
OPPDATERING: Sitatet står HER – det er biskop Edward Slattery, i Tulsa, Oklahoma, som har begynt å feire messen på sin domkirkes høyalter, ad orentem. Meldinga var fra august i år. Takk til Tor.

Handler samtalene mellom Vatikanet og SSPX egentlig om forståelsen av Vatikankonsilet?

Katolsk /

Det påstår Robert Moynihani Inside the Vatican, og han formulerer seg slik (fra NLM-bloggen):

Pope Benedict XVI has just made a dramatic choice, one which will certainly be numbered among the major decisions of his pontificate. He has decided, in effect, to reopen formal debate on the Second Vatican Council and its teaching.

The new dialogue, which will take place in Rome between the leaders of the Fraternity of St. Pius X (the followers of the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre) and Vatican experts will take place on October 26 at the Vatican, Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said today. …

For the Pope’s critics, the decision is unwise, as it seems likely to open a large can of worms. These critics have argued that the lid on this can should be kept tightly closed. In essence, they have advised the Pope not to «dignify» the Society’s objections to certain conciliar teachings — or to the interpretations of those teachings — by granting such a formal dialogue.

But Benedict has decided to let the dialogue begin.

For the Pope’s supporters, the decision is an occasion for praise. Why? Because the Pope, almost five years into his pontificate, has finally decided to face head on and «bring into the open» the doctrinal problems «smoldering» (to cite his own words of 45 years ago) just beneath the surface of Church life throughout the entire post-conciliar period (1965 to the present, or 44 years).

So, with this decision to engage in a dialogue about the Council, a very significant phase of Benedict’s pontificate begins.

Samtalene med SSPX starter i Roma 26. oktober

Katolsk /

Flere kilder melder at samtalene mellom SSPX og Kongregasjonen for Troslæren starter mandag 26. oktober, i Vatikanet. Katolsk.no skriver om dette, og skriver: «Innholdet i samtalene vedrørende de åpne doktrinære spørsmål vil holdes strengt konfidensielt», sa p. Lombardi en pressemelding torsdag.

I et nylig intervju med et sørafrikansk SSPX-magasin, … svarte generalsuperior i SSPX, biskop Bernard Fellay følgende på spørsmål om samtalenes lengde og innhold: «Jeg har ingen anelse om hvor lenge de vil vare. Dette kommer an på forventningene i Roma. Det kan nok ta lang tid. Dette fordi temaene er mange og brede. Våre hovedinnvendinger mot konsilet, som for eksempel trosfrihet, økumenikk og kollegialitet er velkjente. Andre innvendinger kan allikevel bli tatt opp, slik som den moderne filosofis innflytelse, liturgiske nyvinninger, verdslighet og dets påvirkning på den moderne tanke som har spredt seg som en farsott i Kirken».

Vårt Land skriver også om dette, og forteller bl.a.: En rekke personer vil være til stede under møtet. Deriblant erkebiskop Guido Pozzo, sekretær for Ecclesia Dei; erkebiskop Luis Ladaria Ferrer, sekretær for Kongregasjonen for Troslæren(KT); p. Charles Morerod OP, sekretær for den internasjonale teologiske kommisjon og rådgiver for KT; erkebiskop Fernando Ocariz, generalvikar for Opus Dei og rådgiver for KT; samt Jesuitpater Karl Josef Becker, også fra KT.

Om lekfolkets bønner i tillegg til / ved siden av messen

Liturgi /

Jeg leser nå Ole Martin Stamnestrøs doktoravhandling om liturgien for annen gang, og leser her på s 151-153 om pave Pius XIIs synspunkter i Mediator Dei om lekfolkets bønner om fromhetsøvelser som kommer i tillegg til messen og tidebønnene. Paven kritiserer dem som er motstandere av denne parksisen: The first abuse to be rebuked is the tendency amongst some liturgical scholars to frown upon extra-liturgical acts of devotion and to draw a clear-cut line between subjective and objective piety.

Pius admits that an attack on acts of personal piety would be justified if they “were to neglect the august Sacrifice of the altar and the Sacraments.” But, according to Pius, far from having this effect they serve to rouse people “to repentance and holy fear of God. Thus he praises firstly the widespread extra-liturgical forms of adoration of the Blessed Sacrament.

He also acknowledges the value of other extra-liturgical devotions. In this respect he singles out May devotions to Our Lady, devotio to the Sacred Heart in June, novenas, triduums, and Stations of the Cross: “These devotions make us partakers in a salutary manner of the liturgical cult because they urge the faithful to go frequently to the Sacrament of Penance, attend Mass and receive Communion with devotion.”

Pius rejects the presumed conflict between subjective and objective piety: “No conflict exists between public prayer and prayers in private, between morality and contemplation, between the ascetical life and devotion to the Liturgy.”

Perhaps Pius is unable or unwilling to recognise the importance of teaching the faithful clearly the distinction between the liturgy of the Church and extra-liturgical acts of devotion. His teaching must, however, be viewed against the background of those liturgists who did not engage with the questions of determining a proper relationship between the two, but who thought that the Mass and the Divine Office would best be served by the suppression and elimination of the various popular devotions.

Pius comes closer to achieving a balance when he states that “unquestionably liturgical prayer, being the public supplication of the illustrious Spouse of Jesus Christ, is superior in excellence to private prayers. But this superior worth does not at all imply contrast or incompatibility between these two kinds of prayer.”

Individual parish priests should not take it upon themselves to alter deeply rooted expressions of devotion. “Hence he would do something very wrong and dangerous, who would dare to take on himself to reform all these exercises of piety.”

Et par dager på Jæren

Generelt /

Jeg er nå et par dager på Jæren, besøker min familie, og fikk også være med i en begravelse til ei faster (tante), som døde sist uke, 86 år gammel.

Jeg har begrensa nettilgang her (mobilt bredbåbd; Nettcom litt bruk), men det har ikke passa så godt å arbeide med bloggen her.

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