TLM

En engelsk katolsk sogneprest skriver i the Catholic Herald om hvordan den gamle messen fungerer i hans menighet – der ca 1/3 av søndagsmessebesøket er i denne messen.

Han sier at det ikke (egentlig) er biskoper som ønsker å bremse bruken av denne messen, men heller en stor prosent av alle katolikker. Han skriver så at hovedpoenget med å feire denne messen er at fokuset er så tydelig på å tilbe Gud, heller enn å underholdes (som man noen ganger ser i den nye messen, heldigvis mest i utlandet). Han gjør det også lettere for folk å bli vant til den gamle messen (etter 40 års fravær) ved å synge noen tradisjonelle salmer på morsmålet hver søndag, og ved alltid å lese tekstene på morsmålet.

Three years ago, in July 2007, the Holy Father published Summorum Pontificum giving parishioners the canonical right to have their parish priest celebrate the Old Form of Mass (the Extraordinary Form) for them alongside the New or Ordinary Form. In places Summorum Pontificum is resisted, and it is important to recognise and address the causes.

Some say the obstruction comes from bishops, but this is unfair. The problem seems to lie within the Church as a whole, being an aversion to formal, God-directed worship in favour of a liturgy that entertains with cheerful hymns, is undemanding to follow and casual in celebration. This aversion harbours resistance not only to Summorum Pontificum but even to the new translation of the New Form. As the end of the three year period of assessment on how the implementation of Summorum Pontificum has gone approaches, I offer a reflection from one of the several parishes which celebrate in the Old Form every Sunday.

In scheduling the Old Form, objections came mainly from those who experienced the heady days of the Church’s surge into change after Vatican Council II and who saw change and informality as the order of the day. It is understandably hard for them to welcome back their heritage when it evokes things considered long gone and appears to undo what was established by priests they have loved. But honesty compels us to acknowledge that we all abandoned things the Council decreed we retain, while loyalty demands we recover them by authentic catechesis on both the Council and the Ordinary Form. … …

Zenit.org publiserte i går en artikkel som handler om den tradisjonelle latinske messen, og intervjuer en prest som tilhører prestefellesskapet FSSP … the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, a growing community of priests that are devoted to celebrating the extraordinary form of the Mass.

As many religious orders are desperately praying for vocations, this community has young men waiting to get into their seminary program at the Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Denton.

This relatively new society of priests — founded in 1988 — has garnered the attention of, not only those who seek to go back to the Latin Mass, but also those who want to share in the beauty, the reverence and the piety of the traditional Latin Mass for the first time.

Presten som intervjues, Father Goodwin, forteller så om hva de gjør, hvordan han ble dradd inn i denne (gamle) formen av messen, og hvordan han syns messen best skal feires:

We are a community completely gathered around the Church’s traditional liturgy. It really is at the heart of our vocation. As to what drew me to the fraternity, it wasn’t my idea; it was God.

I was a member of a large religious community for a number of years when I stumbled upon a church where [the Traditional] Mass was being celebrated. I don’t think I could really say that I knew in a conscious way, but something in me knew that, after this, my life was going to be different.

…….

On Sept. 16, 1991, the Diocese of Portland celebrated its first Traditional Mass in about 20 years. It just went on from there. I was saying the Traditional Mass more and the newer form of the mass, less. After a while, I began to realize that my whole spiritual life as a priest was centered on this Mass. One of the priests of the Fraternity of St. Peter came to do a lecture on the traditional Mass and he [invited me to their] district house in Pennsylvania.

I thought, «If God has led me in this direction, then I should take responsibility for this grace.» Rather than wishing that everything around me would change, I’m the one who has to change. That’s what brought me to the Fraternity of St. Peter and I’ve been here since [1999].

…. The Traditional Mass is a very important element in the re-Christianization of the world because it so clearly and fully embodies the faith of the Church. The whole notion of Christ’s sacrifice is the central point of the Mass.

Of course, the primary objection that’s most often offered to it is «Why would you want to celebrate the Mass in a language that people don’t understand?» But that makes the assumption that the relationship of people to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is primarily one of comprehension; that the Mass is a piece of information to be learned and understood.

Today, Mass is most often celebrated in the world where people can see everything that is going on and understand everything that’s said. Can we honestly say that the result of this has deepened their appreciation for what’s going on? When pollsters tell us that 80% of Catholics under the age of 59 have a non-Catholic idea of what the Blessed Sacrament is, the whole communication thing may not be so successful. That should not be the primary goal. The primary goal is the worship of God. …

Jeg skrev for ikke lenge siden om det gamle ritualet for opptakelse av konvertitter i Kirken – se her. Siden den tid har jeg fått opplysninger som viser at det nok har vært en utvikling i ritualet i løpet av 1900-tallet. En mann som ble opptatt i 1960 sier at han ikek husker det helst slik; bl.a. hadde han bare én fadder, ikke to. En annen person har en kopi av Katolsk bønnebok fra 1933, som har en fyldigere utgave av trosbekjennelsen (se under) og også en interessant innledning til ritalet ved msgr. Kjeldstrup.

Her kan man se kopier av de sju sidene i ritualet:

…

Ritualet for opptakelse av konvertitter fra 1933Les mer »

(Slik var ritualet for opptakelse av konvertitter fram til forandringene rundt 1970, så langt jeg vet – tatt fra Katolsk bønnebok 1944:)

Presten i korskjorte og fiolett stola, konvertitten og to vitner kneler foran alteret og ber eller synger Veni Creator. Så setter presten seg på en stol, enten midt for alteret eller på epistelsiden, dersom det er Sakramentsalteret. Han sier til konvertitten:

Er det ditt faste forsett å vedkjenne den hellige katolske tro og ta avstand fra alle villfarelser, så kunngjør og oppfyll nå ditt forsett og si fram:

Trosbekjennelse for konvertitter.

Konvertitten legger høyre hånd på evangelieboken eller innledningen til Johannes evangelium i messeboken.

Med hånden på Guds hellige evangelier og opplyst av Guds nåde, bekjenner jeg N. N. ………. den tro som den katolske, apostoliske, romerske Kirke lærer. Jeg tror at den er den eneste sanne Kirke som Jesus Kristus har stiftet på jorden, og jeg underkaster meg den av hele mitt hjerte.

Jeg tror på Gud Fader, den allmektige, himmelens og jordens skaper, og på Jesus Kristus, hans enbårne sønn, vår Herre, som er unnfanget ved den Hellige Ånd, født av jomfruen Maria, pint under Pontius Pilatus, korsfestet død og begravet, som fór ned til dødsriket, stod opp den tredje dag fra de døde, fór opp til himmelen, sitter ved Gud Faders den allmektiges høyre hånd, skal derfra komme igjen for å dømme de levende og de døde. Jeg tror på den Hellige Ånd, den hellige katolske Kirke, de helliges samfunn, syndenes forlatelse, kjødets oppstandelse og det evige liv. Amen.

Jeg tror at Jesus Kristus har innstiftet syv sakramenter til menneskehetens frelse, nemlig: dåpen, fermingen, Eukaristien, boten, den siste salving, prestevigslingen og ekteskapet.

Jeg tror at den romerske biskop er Jesu Kristi stedfortreder på jorden, hele Kirkens høyeste synlige overhode, som ufeilbart lærer det som vi skal tro og gjøre.

Jeg tror dessuten alt det som den hellige katolske, apostoliske og romerske Kirke fastsetter og erklærer at vi skal tro. Jeg slutter meg til den av hele mitt hjerte og forkaster alle villfarelser og skismer som den har fordømt.

Til dette hjelpe meg Gud og hans hellige evangelier, som jeg rører ved med min hånd.

Etter dette ber presten Salme 129: De profundis, men i stedet for «Requiem æternam», sier han: Gloria Patri et Filio et Spiritui Sancto, sieut erat in principio et nune et semper et in sæcula sæculorum. Amen.

Ære være Faderen og Sønnen og den Hellige Ånd, som det var i opphavet så nå og alltid og i all evighet. Amen.

Så reiser han seg og ber:

P.: Herre, miskunn deg.
M.: Kristus, miskunn deg.
P.: Herre, miskunn deg.
P.: Pater noster / Fader vår …… (bes stille til:)
Og led oss ikke inn i fristelse.
M.: Men frels oss fra det onde. Amen.

P.: Herre, frels din tjener.
M.: Som håper på deg, min Gud.
P.: Herre hør min bønn.
M.: Og la mitt rop nå fram til deg.
P.: Herren være med dere.
M.: Og med din and.

P.: Oremus: Deus cui proprium est misereri semper, et parcere: suscipe deprecationem nostram, ut hunc famulum. tuum, quem excommunicationis catena constringit, miseratio tum pletatis clementer absolvat. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.

P.: La oss be: Gud, det er eget for deg å miskunne deg og skåne. Hør vår ydmyke bønn, så din godhets og miskunns mildhet løse denne din tjener fra ekskommunikasjonens band som skiller ham fra din Kirke. Ved Jesus Kristus, vår Herre.
M.: Amen.

Presten setter seg nå atter, med biretten på hodet, som tegn på at han sitter som dommer, og løser konvertitten fra ekskommunikasjonen:

Auctoritate apostolica, qua fungor ex hac parte, absolvo te a vinculo excommunicationis, quam (forsan) incurristi, et restituo te sacrosanctæ Ecelesiæ Sacramentis, communioni et unitati fidelium, in nomine Patris et Filii + et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.

Med den myndighet som den apostoliske stol har gitt meg i denne sak, løser jeg deg fra ekskommunikasjonen, som du kan ha pådratt deg, og gir deg rett til den hellige Kirkes sakramenter, fellesskapet og enheten med de troende. I Faderens og Sønnens + og den Hellige Ånds navn. Amen.

Til sist pålegger presten konvertitten en eller annen bot.

Et nettsted kalt divinumofficium.com har tekster og bønner til messen (og tidebønnene) alle dager i året – i messens tradisjonelle latinske form. Skriv inn datoen du ønsker, velg Sancta Missa (og om du vil ha rubrikkene med), og så kommer absolutt hele messen opp.

I dag feirer man i TLM minnedag for den hellige Venantius, og da kan vi bl.a. lese følgende inngangsvers:

Protexísti me, Deus, a convéntu malignántium, allelúja: a multitúdine operántium iniquitátem, allelúja, allelúja. (Ps. 63:2)
Exáudi, Deus, oratiónem meam, cum déprecor: a timóre inimíci éripe ánimam meam.
Glória Patri, et Fílio, et Spirítui Sancto. Sicut erat in princípio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculórum. Amen
Protexísti me, Deus, a convéntu malignántium, allelúja: a multitúdine operántium iniquitátem, allelúja, allelúja.

En nyordinert katolsk prest i Windsor Canada, Fr. Patrick Beneteau, feiret nylig sin første missa solemnis (TLM) – bare noen få dager etter sin aller første messe (som jeg regner med var novus ordo). Han ser tydelig rikdommen i begge formene av den latinske messen, og det er interessant å lese hans refleksjoner etter denne første missa solemnis:

The entire experience of preparing to celebrate the Extraordinary form of the Roman Rite has been an enriching one. In my second year of seminary I read Cardinal Ratzinger’s, «Spirit of the Liturgy,» and some of Louis Bouyer’s works on liturgy. I realized that, in many respects, the Liturgical Movement was still in need of being actually implemented and taught. Thus began my keen interest in the traditional celebrations of the Church’s liturgy in both forms of the Roman rite.

In celebrating this past Sunday’s Solemn High Mass, I was struck with how Christ-centered the entire Mass was. Every gesture, chant, rubric and prayer offered by either myself, the deacon, or subdeacon, focused my attention constantly on the fact that this sacrifice was being offered to the Father, through Christ’s sacred action, not my own – and this was very liberating. The ad orientem direction of liturgical prayer emphasizes this fact so clearly.

The second thing which struck me, out of the whole experience, was how incarnational the whole celebration of a Solemn Mass is. It counters so much of the hyper-cerebral tendencies that are current in today’s society at large; that we have to know and understand everything in its completeness. The Solemn Mass strikes all of the human senses and helps us to learn and to enter into relationship with God and others.

Although, somewhat nervous at the beginning of the Mass, I quickly felt entirely drawn into the great mystery of God, and felt as though I belonged to something so much greater than what was even occurring at Assumption Church. I felt the sense of the Church universal.

Learning both forms of the Roman Rite, as a transitional deacon, and now as a newly ordained priest, has, as Benedict XVI said in Summorum Pontificum, been a mutually enriching experience. What I have learned in the Extraordinary Form has assisted me in my celebrations of the Ordinary Form, ensuring that the focus is on Christ, and that I allow the liturgy to speak for itself, employing all of its incarnational power. What I have learned in the Ordinary Form has also helped me in my preparations for celebrating the Extraordinary Form as well — especially in my preaching as I attempt to always preach from the liturgy that is being celebrated, with its readings, its collects and its rich treasury of prayers.

Fra TLM-bloggen, der det også er flere bilder.

Før en reqiemmesse i dag (der familien har ønsket at messen feires på latin, novus ordo, med tekster, preken etc på norsk), har jeg også sett litt på den høytidelige avslutningen av begravelsesmessen etter gammel ordning. Denen avslutning brukes jo også i vår tid, selvsagt, og er det som skiller en katolsk begravelse tydeligst fra en protestantisk. Det gamle ritualet for denne for denne avslutningen/absolusjon ved båren er noe fyldigere enn det vi har i dag, og er slik (på norsk):

———————-

Denne første bønnen (Non intres) bes bare når den dødes legeme er til stede.

Presten ber:
Herre, gå ikke til doms med din tjener; for ikke noe menneske kan stå som rettferdig overfor deg om det ikke får din forlatelse for alle sine synder. Derfor ber vi: La ikke ditt dommerord slå ned den som kristentroens sanne forbønn taler for hos deg, men la din nåde komme ham (henne) til hjelp og la ham (henne) bli verdig til å slippe fra hevnens dom, siden han (hun) i livet var preget med den hellige Treenighets segl. Du som lever og styrer fra evighet til evighet.
F.: Amen.

Deretter synges Responsorium.

Fri meg, Herre, fra den evige død på den forferdelige dag når himmel og jord skal rystes: + Når du kommer for å dømme verden med ild. V. Jeg frykter og skjelver mens jeg venter på dommen og den kommende vrede. Når himmel og jord skal rystes. V. Hin dag, vredens dag, jammerens og nødens dag, den store og bittert kvidefulle dag. +. Når du kommer for å dømme verden med ild. +. Herre, gi dem den evige hvile, og la det evige lys lyse for dem. Fri meg, Herre, til V.

Mot slutten av responsoriet tar presten røkelse, som han velsigner.

Pr.: Herre, miskunn deg!
F.: Kristus, miskunn deg!
Pr.: Herre, miskunn deg!

Pr.. Fader vår / Paternoster (stille).

Presten signer båren med vievann og røkelse; så ber han:

Pr.. Og led oss ikke inn i fristelse.
F.: Men frels oss fra det onde.
Pr.: Fra dødsrikets makt.
F.: Frels, Herre, hans/hennes sjel (deres sjeler).
Pr. Han/hun (de) hvile i fred.
F.: Amen.
Pr.: Herre, hør min bønn.
F.: Og la mitt rop nå fram til deg.
Pr.: Herren være med dere.
F.: Og med din ånd.

Pr.: La oss be:
Vi ber deg, Herre, fri din tjeners/tjenerinnes sjel (tjeneres og tjenerinners sjeler) fra alle misgjerningers bånd, så han /hun (de) i oppstandelsens herlighet kan leve et nytt liv i samfunn med dine hellige og utvalgte. Ved Kristus vår Herre
F.: Amen.

Istedenfor ovenstående kan presten be kirkebønnen fra messen el. en annen passende bønn. Er båren til stede, blir denne bønnen bedt:

La oss be.
Gud, det er eget for deg å miskunne deg og skåne. Ydmykt trygler vi deg for din tjener/tjenerinne N.’s sjel, som du i dag har kalt hjem fra verden. Gi den ikke over i fiendens hender, glem den ikke i evighet, men la dine hellige engler ta imot den og føre den til Paradisets fedreland. La den ikke lide dødsrikets straff, men eie de evige gleder; for den har håpet og trodd på deg. Ved Kristus, vår Herre.
F.: Amen.

Presten gjør korstegnet over båren og sier:

Pr.: Herre, gi ham/henne (dem) den evige hvile.
Sv.: Og la det evige lys lyse for ham/henne (dem).
Pr.: Han/hun (de) hvile fred.
Sv.: Amen.

Presten ber:
Pr.: Hans/hennes sjel (deres sjeler) og alle avdøde kristnes sjeler hvile ved Guds miskunn i fred.
Sv.: Amen

—— Så følger også noe mer, som jeg ikke tar med i denne omgang ——-

På tilbakeveien til sakristiet eller på vei til graven ber presten skiftevis med sitt følge:

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The Canons Regular of St. John Cantius (i Chicago) er en gruppe prester som feirer både den gamle og den nye katolske messen. Jeg har stor respekt for dem, og syns at de med på å berike vår Kirke. De er ikke negative eller ekstreme på noen måte (så langt jeg kjenner dem), men de arbeider for å gjøre Kirken og liturgien rikere på en konstruktiv og positiv måte. Med den bakgrunnen vil jeg gjerne bringe videre følgende nyhet:

The Canons Regular of St. John Cantius (Archdiocese of Chicago) are leading a pilgrimage in September, 2010 to Fatima, Portugal to help achieve the restoration off the Traditional Latin Mass to the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Fatima.

Included in this pilgrimage to the Fatima apparition sites will be a liturgical conference in Fatima providing clergy and laity with lectures on the history, spirituality, and mystical theology of the Classical Roman Rite.

On September 10 the Canons will celebrate a Solemn High Latin Mass (1962 Missale Romanum) at the High Altar of Fatima’s Basilica. This will be the first time in some 45 years that the High Altar has been used to celebrate the Traditional Mass.

Sist søndag, 2. mai, feiret kardinal Carlo Caffarra, erkebiskop i Bologna, en tradisjonell latinsk messe i sin egen by, i kirken S. Maria della Pietà. Det er så vidt jeg forstår første gang en ‘normal’ erkebiskop i Italia feirer den gamle messen offentlig – men tidligere har flere erkebiskoper og kardinaler som arbeider i Vaikanet gjort det. Et eksempel til etterfølgelse får man håpe:

Fr. Dominic Holtz, OP, fra USA forteller på sin blog om erfaringene med å feire en offentlig TLM (missa cantata) for første gang – og han beskriver opplevelsen svært positivt.

Først skriver han at forberedelsesbønnene før presten går opp til alteret var virkningsfulle:
From the outset, I was impressed existentially by what I already grasped notionally, namely how spiritually useful the whole «fore-Mass» was, and most especially, the prayers at the foot of the altar. There was, once the servers and I began, a real spiritual calm, as well as a clear sense of the seriousness of what I was about to do when I finally approached the altar. To be sure, the vesting prayers and my own other recollections before Mass, which I would do anyway, were important, but this splendid antiphony between me and the servers, the mutual (not merely communal) confession of sins, the at once sobering and yet hopeful words of the Aufer a nobis and Oramus te, all the while not needing to worry whether I was «holding up» the celebration of the Mass, gave me a sense of purpose and intention from the start unlike I have had often before at Mass. …

Deretter skriver han at første del av messen, en sunget messe, egentlig er en sammenhengende sang- og lovprisningsdel:
At the same time (this was a Missa cantata) I found real solace in the quiet recitation waiting on the choir to complete its Kyrie and Gloria. It was a kind of waiting that at one and the same time afforded my a space for private, recollected prayer and kept me attentive of my role as servant to the rite. As crucial as my role was, it was not «my» time to direct the action, but my time to wait.

I should mention here that the distinction of the whole Mass of the Catechumens as more vocal, more choral, more audible, if you well, also became experientially apparent, however I already knew it conceptually. What I, and the whole congregation, experienced from the beginning of the Introit through the conclusion of the Gospel was an extended and continuous act of praise and proclamation. …

Ved nattverdens kanonbønn, derimot, innledes en dramatisk forandring, en svært talende stillhet:
I was most profoundly affected by the silent celebration of the Canon. There was an intensity, a presence, an abundance of content in that silence unlike any I have experienced before. Perhaps it was due in part to the contrast of the nearly continuous and sublime music I had heard up to and including the Sanctus. All the same, when the final Hosanna in excelsis came to an end and all that could be heard was the silence of my prayer … It is an experience quite difficult to put into words, and all the more so were I to try to evoke what it meant to say the words of consecration without trying to communicate them meaningfully and vocally to a disparate gathering of the faithful, but to say them under the veil of silence so that they might be what they are in plain and profound simplicity … I can only note here that it was transformative, or better, I hope it will be.

As I said above, I was also struck by the relative increase of silence in the Mass of the Faithful, the several, indeed frequent «interruptions» when nothing is heard. Even so, these were not mere pauses, nor simply my «finishing up» prayers that were too long for the music to cover. They were filled, meaningful silences, and they directed me at least, and I hope the faithful, to Communion in a way the ordinary form does not. …

Father Z. kommenterer også dette.

Jeg skrev for noen dager siden om den tradisjonelle latinske pontifikalmessen som ble feiret av biskop Slattery i USAs største katolske kirke. Forhåpentligvis vil denne typen liturgier også komme til vår del av verden om ikek lenge. Her er noen få reaksjon fra folk som var der:

It was the first Pontifical Mass I have ever attended and it was absolutely magnificent! I am profoundly grateful to all who made possible that glorious celebration of the Mass! What we were unable to see at the Mass was the actual vesting of the celebrant after the procession in the cappa magna. …

I live in the DC area and have attended many Masses at the Shrine. Not long after Summorum Pontificum was issued, I visited the office of the rector, and also approached staff at a Shrine information table, regarding the possibility of celebrating any Extraordinary Form Masses, perhaps at least in the Crypt Church. I was assured that it was highly unlikely that any such Masses would ever be celebrated at the Shrine. My thought at that time was that they had vastly underestimated the desire for the “old Mass.” I think that is essentially what was demonstrated at the Saturday Mass. There is a strong desire for it, but more importantly, not only among “nostalgic, older” Catholics (like me). There were many, many young people, and families with young children, and many young women and girls with mantillas and chapel veils. … …

———–

I attended the mass on Saturday with my wife. We’re new Catholics, and attend a parish in Northern Virginia. We’ve been to three masses (one high) in the extraordinary form before Saturday. Granted, we were seated near the very back, so it was somewhat difficult to see the front of the church. I’d like to share two impressions with you.

First, the homily was stunning. It was the first time I had heard/seen a homily delivered from a chair, and I think that the bishop’s position (and the position of those scattered around him) heightened the majestic feeling of the whole thing. For whatever reason, it struck me that I was indeed listening to a successor of the apostles who passed on the faith, once delivered.

Second, it occurred to me that what was going on at the altar was very important. Granted, I believe this on a theological level at any mass, but I really believed it in a different way on Saturday. It was somehow easier to understand that I was truly observing a very sacred mystery. …

———–

… I brought a co-worker of mine who is a very traditionalist Russian Orthodox (outside of Russia). He is quite anti-Catholic, even for an Orthodox. He thinks the Latin Patriarchy is in schism from Orthodoxy, and in heresy due to filioque.

Anyway, he had never been to a TLM before. He was awestruck with it. He noticed how similar the basic order and some details were to the Divine Liturgy. He gathered a new respect for the Latin Rite and the Catholic Church he never had before. He even got respect for our ability to kneel (he is wont to brag about his ability to stand for long periods). This was truly ecumenism at work, all because our Catholic identity was strengthened. …

Les mange flere kommentarer hos Father Z.

Jeg skrev litt for et par dager siden om den tradisjonelle latiske pontfikalmessen som ble feiret i Washingtoon DC på femårsdagen for pave Benedikts innsettelse som pave. Jeg vil gjerne uttrykke at jeg selv liker høytidelige messer – og en varierende grad av høytidlighet, hverdag og fest er jo forskjellige – og jeg observerer også at den tradisjonelle latinske messen har en enda større variasjonsbredde i så henseende enn den nye messen. Men en prest i Seattle likte messen dårlig, og skriver på sin blog:

I watched the first part of the old Latin Mass (the Extraordinary Form) celebrated recently at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception. Lots of old fashioned vestments, the bishop wearing gloves, men with all sorts of capes and veils. But vesture is only one of the negatives so apparent in the old Latin Mass. I am familiar with this form of the Mass from seminary days in the sixties, but now the rite does appear to be a museum liturgy, a ritual of mystification rather than mystery.

I must be honest in saying that I find this rite offensive by todays’s liturgical standards. It isn’t just the endless bows, nods and genuflections, nor even the silly dancing birettas. Nor is it the bishop preaching, surrounded by vested ministers sitting undecorously on the steps, as if the basilica has run short of seating for ministers of the Mass. And to whom, exactly, are the readers proclaiming the scriptures? If it’s to the people, then this critical proclamation is in an unintelligible language. If to God, well, God already knows the readings.

I find it offensive that anyone would foster the return of a rite that is immune from the fundamental principles of good liturgy annunciated by the formal teaching of Vatican II. Why would anyone return to a rite that virtually ignores the Hebrew Bible on Sundays and feasts, that requires no homily on the scriptures, that strictly exculdes any lay ministers? The Church teaches that full participation is required by all, that our rites should be simple, short, clear, and unencumbered by useless repitions. Our rites should be within the people’s power of comprehension, and not require much explanation. The old Latin rite ignores all these fundamental principles. It is a rite that cries out for reform, just as it was crying out the day before Vatican II began.

Father Z er ikke nådig mot denne kritikken. Les det han skriver HER – samt alle (over 100) kommentarer til hans innlegg, hvis du har tid.

I Tyskland er det nylig foetatt en undersøkelse blant katolikker (2611 personer over 18 år er spurt – dessverre er det bare 10% av disse som går i messen hver uke eller hver måned) hva de syns om den tradisjonelle latiske messen, og de viser seg å være svært positive.

Et av spørsmålene de har fått er:
Dersom messen blir feiret på latin, med gregoriansk sang og i sin ekstraordinære form i DIN menighet, uten å skyve bort den ordinære messen feiret på tysk, ville du delta?

Katolikker som går i messen ukentlig eller månedlig svarer:
* 25% at de vil delta hver uke
* 19% en gang i måneden
* 9% på store helligdager
* 40% av og til
* 7% aldri

Fra Rorate cæli – og under er flere av spørsmålene gjengitt:

Here are the poll’s results. We are glad to offer them to the Holy Father to symbolically mark the fifth anniversary of his election to the Holy See.

Question # 1: Do you attend Mass?

Weekly: 5.9%
Monthly: 4.1%
On Holy Days: 18.9%
Occasionally (e.g. for weddings): 42.3%
Never: 28.8%

Question # 2: In July 2007, Pope Benedict XVI restated that the Mass could be celebrated both in its modern, «ordinary,» or «Paul VI» form–i.e. in German, with the priest facing the faithful, communion received standing–and in its traditional, «extraordinary,» or «John XXIII» form–i.e. in Latin and Gregorian chant, with the priest turned towards the altar, communion received kneeling. Were you aware of this?

Yes: 43.1%
No: 56.9%

Question # 3: Would you consider it normal or abnormal for both liturgical forms to be regularly celebrated in YOUR parish?

Normal: 50.6 %
Abnormal: 24.5 %
No opinion: 24.9 %

Question # 4: If Mass were celebrated with Latin and Gregorian chant in its extraordinary form in YOUR parish, without taking the place of the ordinary one in German, would you attend it?

Answers from those who practice regularly (weekly and monthy)
25% would attend weekly
19% once a month
9% for Holy Days
40% occasionally
7% never

Jeg syns at det er litt trist at her på bloggen (og også mange andre steder) blir debatten nokså polarisert, både når vi diskuterer liturgi og flere andre emner. Men det blir ofte mer fruktbare samtaler når man forstår hverandre bedre. Jeg har også blitt spurt av noen som misliker bloggen min, hva jeg egentlig ønsker med den. Det er det ikke så lett å svare på fullt ut, men når det gjelder Kirkens liturgi ønsker jeg først og fremst at den kan feires best mulig, og jeg tror at vi oppnår det best ved å berikes av elementer fra både den gamle og den nye messen.

I min lange liste med liturgibøker har jeg nå begynt på Laurence Paul Hemmnings «Worship as a revelation». Boka er ganske filosofisk og teoretisk, og jeg har ikke kommet så veldig langt i den, men mot slutten skriver Hemming noe (og siterer kardinal Ratzinger) som kan hjelpe oss til å legge vekt på både det gamle og det nye, når vi kontinuerlig skal arbeide med liturgien:

I have already remarked on Benedict XVI’s characterization of the need for a ‘hermeneutic of continuityin interpreting the postconciliar period of the Church’s life. He has extended this interpretative key to the liturgy itself, by saying that ‘the changes which the Council called for need to be understood within the overall unity of the historical development of the rite itself, without the introduction of artificial discontinuities’, adding in a note: ‘I am referring here to the need for a hermeneutic of continuity also with regard to the correct interpretation of the liturgical development which followed the Second Vatican Council. … …

In 1996, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger gave a protracted interview to the German journalist Peter Seewald about the state and present situation of the Church. He spoke once again of his disappointment with liturgical developments in the postconciliar period, speaking of how the liturgy has been ‘flattened’ and evacuated of mystery. Seewald put the following question: ‘wouldn’t it be conceivable to reactivate the old rite in order to work against this levelling and demystification?’ The future pope’s response is a clear indication that there are no short-cuts, no easy solutions to the present situation with respect to the sacred liturgy. Ratzinger replied:

That alone would not be a solution. I am of the opinion, to be sure, that the old rite should be granted much more generously to all those who desire it. It is impossible to see what could be dangerous or unacceptable about that. A community is calling its very being into question when it suddenly declares that what until now was its holiest and highest possession is strictly forbidden and when it makes the longing for it seem downright indecent. Can it be trusted anymore about anything else? Won’t it proscribe again tomorrow what it prescribes today?

But a simple return to the old way would not, as I have said, be a solution. Our culture has changed so radically in the last thirty years that a liturgy celebrated exclusively in Latin would bring with it an experience of foreignness that many could not cope with. What we need is a new liturgical education, especially of priests. It must once again become clear that liturgical scholarship doesn’t exist in order to produce constantly new models, though that may be all right for the car manufacturing industry. It exists in order to introduce us into feast and celebration, to make man capable of the mystery. Here we ought to learn not just from the Eastern Church but from all the religions of the world, which all know that liturgy is something other than the invention of texts and rites, that it lives precisely from what is beyond manipulation. Young people have a very strong sense of this. Centres in which the liturgy is celebrated reverently and nobly without nonsense attract, even if one doesn’t understand every word. We need such centres to set an example. Unfortunately, in Germany tolerance for bizarre tinkering is almost unlimited, whereas tolerance for the old liturgy is practically nonexistent. We are surely on the wrong path in that regard.

Father Z har bedt folk skrive inn til ham (og gjerne legge litt arbeid i det de skriver, og si hvor gamle de er) og fortelle om hvordan de vurderer den tradisjonelle latinske messen i forhold til den moderne. Disse brevene kan leses HER, HER og HER – til sammen ca 75 stk, mest fra nokså unge mennesker.

Det virker som Father Z her har klart å få en hel del ferske inntrykk publisert, for dette er ikke typiske blogkommentarer. Dessuten virker det som brevene i hovedsak støtter den nye messen feiret på en verdig måte; absolutt versus Deum og gjerne med mye latin. Men i USA feires få messer særlig verdig (det er en alvorlig påstand, men det er faktisk mitt inntrykk), så ofte vil den tradisjonelle messen være folks førstevalg. Under tar jeg meg noen få utdrag, som jeg selv syns er representative:

I have attended a number of “old Masses” since then (from Low to Solemn High) and have always enjoyed the experience, especially when the music is well done and the parts of the Mass are in Gregorian Chant. As for which Mass I prefer, I suppose, if I had to make a choice, I would prefer the Novus Ordo ad orientem in Latin (with the readings and Prayers of the Faithful in the vernacular) over Mass in the Extraordinary Form, probably because it is the form I am more familiar with. …. ….

I have come to find that I prefer the Ordinary Form of Mass, when done reverently and carefully, to an equally well done Extraordinary Form Mass. That said, I am glad to have the EF Mass around and available. …. ….

At first, it t took about a month or two to get used to it because it seemed so strange and different to me. But little by little I came to love it very much. I like that the priest is leading us, facing God, at the head of the congregation and not looking at us. …

Folk forteller om hvordan de vurderer den nye og den gamle formen av messenLes mer »